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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:01 pm 
Loremaster
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I think that if Bolg is re-designed, or if he's kept but with a diminished role like Yazneg, then I think there is a good chance he might also be be re-named. Considering that "Bolg" has already been released as a named action figure, mini etc.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:46 am 
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I have to confess, I'm not sorry to learn the fate of big bad beardy bolg. I honestly wasn't looking forward to seeing him (or yazneg) in any expanded Hobbit materiel. "Bolg" always looked a little like a Muppet to me, and his bone-club seemed campy.

I also like the final revision of Azog, and I think it was a good choice on the part of PJ. It has something to do with a sense I have that most of the named (or personality bestowed) orcs from the original trilogy rubbed me the wrong way. Looking back, there is only one from those three films that seemed pitch perfect to me, and that's Lurtz. He left a pretty malevolent mark on the story. He killed Boromir (a job that took at least a dozen orc archers in the books)

In spite of only having one word of dialogue, and not looking particularly unusual, Lurtz is memorable to me, because of what he is (a breed of orc that is unprecedentedly dangerous) and what he does (hunts and kills a named character). I think Lurtz works in a way that none of the talking orcs from TT or RoTK do. Honestly, Orc dialogue is campy at its best, and the increasingly strange character design made them hard to take them differently.

This points to why I like Azog's design. He's a very simple looking orc, without a lot of bling. It's a minimalistic design. He's big, and pale, and has scars and that's it. (I'm not crazy about his prosthesis claw, but that's a minor peeve). To me, Azog looks like a shark, and I find sharks TERRIFYING. What makes Azog work is a simplicity of purpose that reminds me of Lurtz. Azog hunts. Azog will hunt Thorin the ends of the earth. This will only end when one (Or both) of them are dead. This also reminds me a little of what made the Nazgul scary in the first movie. They are malevolent pursuers who are utterly relentless. The chase is what matters. It's more suspenseful than the way the fights play out between hero & Villian.

Your mileage may vary, but for me it comes down to this. Azog is a shark. A big white shark. That rides a wolf. This frightens me.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:44 am 
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I wish they hadn't killed off Yazneg in the first movie; his GW model looks so amazing o.o

Considering he does die though, I predict he will have zero or 1 fate point at most XD
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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:10 am 
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The extended edition is definitely worth picking up, for both the film and the incredible Appendices discs. The Appendices are even numbered 7 and 8 to dovetail with the extras in the LotR set. Well over 8 hours of behind the scenes entertainment there alone.

I did see Bolg, all armoured up and nasty weapon swinging in the Moria sequence. He's in the background though and you will literally miss him if you blink. I meant to check the time code, so I'll go back and do that and post it.

It seems as though a lot of changes were made 'on the fly' this time round. They had the advantage of not having the cost of film processing, as the RED 3D cameras use digital storage media. Therefore reshoots only meant a cost of hours, not material.

The goblins underwent some substantial changes due to the actors overheating in the silicon suits in the smaller sets with lots of light. I shuddered at the sight of one of the guys pouring sweat out of his silicon goblin foot at the end of a shot. They dropped the masks in favour of CGI-ing their heads over the actors in post. This could explain some of the inconsistencies I felt existed in their design, although that is probably down to PJ revising the Guillermo del Toro approved designs after he took over as director.

Given the tremendous advances in mo-cap, principal actors performances are captured down to the most minute detail. The tear that Gollum sheds at the loss of his precious was shed in the same frame by Andy Serkis. It seems strange that Azog stands out as a less completely realised CGI character, unless the revisions were done very late in post and lacked the time to finesse the details more effectively.

Based on looks alone, Bolg would have been a far more dramatic nemesis for the company. He does look a bit more Uruk in stature, so the thought of an überOrc like Azog as he appears kind of makes sense. Less panel beating, more brain cells... :D

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:44 am 
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This was a great read, Bolg is my favorite looking villain in game, and one of my favorite villains of all time. He looks brutal.
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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:54 am 
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I wonder, how is the team allowed to make design changes so late in the process? Other companies like LEGO and GW and what not have already invested money in a Bolg design (and who knows what other changes) which they will have to redo if he is indeed changed. That has to cost them, right?

(I'm not in the least an economic, so I might be absolutely wrong. :p )

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:01 am 
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I would hazard a guess that there is a clause in the contracts, protecting companies from loss once they have invested money in tooling and production. That's why all the Bolg miniatures and action figures came out anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:39 pm 
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PJ is famous for his tweaking and reshooting and striving for the memorable or iconic image. Those of you who have seen RotK extras may remember the Witchking's flail - the weapon he used on Eowyn. Everytime WETA arrived with one, PJ wanted it bigger and more vicious looking. In the end it was absurdly huge, and even PJ nearly ruptured himself swinging it. I will never forget the look on Eowyn's face as she sees this terrifying weapon for the first time.
So yes, I can understand where the rehashing and modifications come from - bear in mind also that what PJ wants and what Warner, New Line and others want may differ so somewhere in the background there can be pressures applied to the film makers. Licensees just have to hope they have some warning in advance before they spend too much on tooling and production.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Honestly, what PJ wants, PJ is going to get. he's too rich and influential (NZ passed several labor laws to accomodate him) to not get his way.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:36 pm 
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I found it fascinating to learn how much trouble they had with Azog. I understand the need to actually have a personal threat in the movies, but I loved seeing how that evolved, with each take on the character not really working. I loved the general design of Azog they settled with: a hulking barbarian chieftain maori orc is cool any day of the week, in my opinion. I'll be glad to see him in DoS, where hopefully they've had more than 5 weeks to bang some cgi together. Going off the hd screencaps for the most recent trailers, Azog looks almost real.

I'm interested to see what becomes of 'bolg'. That design is the most brutal looking Orc I've ever seen (but i can see why they ended up not using it for Azog himself). It'll be a pity if they don't use it outside of that brief battle scene, but I understand the desire to have Azog and Bolg look similar. Both being CGI now might mean their scenes together mesh better, and look less like a graphic talking to a waxwork.

Does leave the question of what to do with the current bolg mini - he's way to mean looking to just be a captain.
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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:12 pm 
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After watching the extended DVD I really warmed to Azog. He actually looked fantastic and not at all cgi. I think 3D and the framerate just put him under too much scrutiny.

I must admit I don't like the look of Bolg so I won't be disapointed if he has been cut out completely. An Orc wearing a ginger beard looks a bit daft to me.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:37 pm 
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An orc wearing a ginger beard that he aquired by skinning a dwarf's face isn't daft at all.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:56 am 
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I actually thought Bolg's beard was red with blood of devoured victims. I never imagined him as 'ginger'. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:10 am 
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Strawberry blonde?

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:03 am 
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Farmer Maggot was first to spot that the Bolg mini has now been renamed 'Gundabad Orc General' all but confirming the fears of this thread. Alas I fear we're never fated to see this cracking design on the screen and the fleeting glimpse of him being slaughtered by Dwalin in the AUJ prologue will be his last. Shame really.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... od1830024a

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:09 am 
Ringwraith
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At least I’m glad the model is still available, I was concerned he’d be removed. I guess it does put him near the chopping block though. Golfimbul became an Orc Captain before disappearing.
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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:21 am 
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It does mean another design of Bolg sculpt to look forward to and hopefully those Gundabad Orcs everyone has been looking forward to :)

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:30 am 
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I would say that the renamed Bolg is a good sign. Means we'll be getting new orcs eventually. And there's nothing to stop us using the 'old' mini as Bolg.

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 Post subject: Re: The truth about Azog, Bolg and the Desolation of Smaug
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:40 am 
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Mixed blessings, i suppose.

For one thing, new bolg mini should be due. (I guess this is confirmation that BW are doing a full release for the movie, and nit just getting the stuff already made out of the door - because why bother if there isn't another Bolg coming?).

Hopefully everyone who wants to get hold of this guy will still be able to.

A sign that Gundabad Orcs are indeed on the horizon is a good sign indeed.

And current bolg will, at any rate, make a badass orc boss. Although, frankly, he'd probably make a badass anything. Hairdresser (he's already started), Teacher (no one messing around in class), balet dancer (write him a bad review, I dare you). :lol:
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