Such a disappointing piece of news.

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- RIP Fimbul and Narzug -

Well, i'm glad Bolg will stay, probably, that is, and this model got renamed. This design as bolg was perfect but atleast the model doesn't go and nobody can stop me from using it as Bolg!

What all this has told me is that Conan Stevens should have not quit his day job over on Game of Thrones. I guess he saw The Hobbit as a big career opportunity (can't blame him; the role of main baddie) , now he's probably kicking himself in the head after he sees season 4 of Game of Thrones. When you roll the dice you win some and you lose some, but PJ totally screwed over this guys career or at least his momentum he builded from GoT.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

Probably still say bolg on the blister or it'll be direct only.

Ugh, one more reason for me not to watch DoS. I hated CGI-Azog - he looked so totally fake IMHO - (probably) having a CGI-Bolg kills it for me. That, and Dwarves fighting out of their barrels. And the entire godawful Dol Guldur storyline. I'll never get over Gandalf being absolutely oblivious of Sauron's return...

I better stop. Have fun in the cinema, everyone, I'll rather read the book again and be the happier for it.

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Rohan - as it should have been. A house rule project.

1. CGI Azog was created about a month and a half before the movie was released.
2. Eh, just another action scene, I'm ok with it.
3. He only found out it was Sauron in the book a couple decades before the quest itself. In both book and movie he's tricked into complacency by Saruman. I would prefer to see the whole Dol Guldur scenario play out all at once rather than in flashbacks.

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Whether he plays a CGI Orc or a prosthetics Orc, he's equally unrecognisable, so I don't think it matters that much. UNLESS he has been replaced by someone else?

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"Mickey, my friend!"

Just my opinion, but when I went to watch AUJ in the cinema AND when I bought the DVD, I thought the CGI for the most part was fine.

It was when I went to Ste's house for a batrep and he had the extended version on in the higher frame rate in the background, that it really exposed ALL the CGI because that kind of HD makes everything real almost too real… like you can step into the TV, making anything "not real" stand out like a sore thumb.

Will be sticking to normal cinema frame rate, much better experience in my opinion

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I like to see the film as the maker intended, PJ is trying to push film making with all the latest technology, thats why i will be going for the 48 fps and 3D.

But saying that i thought AUJ was much better on DVD than in the cinema.

Personally I think Azog is brilliant, adds an Evil Hero to film and give us another figure to paint and game with.

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Harfoots-The first of the Hobbit people to cross over the Misty Mountains and enter Eriador.

With regards to the CGI for Azog - it's worth bearing in mind that he was started, and then completed, within five weeks. Not really an excuse, but an explanation nonetheless. I think the render they're using in DoS is much, much improved (which makes sense, given they've had another year to fine tune it). As far as Bolg's cg render, it's worth bearing in mind that the time we learn of the news doesn't equate to the time the decision was made, so he may have had a good year or so of work, too.

FYI, here's a nice HD image of the Azog from a recent trailer (it's just a link, so as not to leech their bandwidth - mods feel free to take it down if it's still dodgy practice ). I think it's much, much improved from AuJ. Doesn't look much 'faker' than a prosthetic would, IMO. Both are clearly not real, but at least this one can emote, which I would imagine was a leading contributor to the decision to axe prosthetic as much as possible. For my part, I just want to poke his scars and veiny forehead.

http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com ... /dos54.jpg

That's one of my main gripes with AUJ - to me, the major CGI scenes looked and felt blatantly CGI, especially Azog, but also the Dwarf city under the Mountain and the scenes in Goblintown. It was just like in the Star Wars prequels - I never had the illusion that this was not filmed in front of a green screen. Oddly, LotR for the most part did a much better job of blending CGI and real-life sets than the Hobbit did.

Anyway, visuals aside, PJ changed way too many key plot lines for my liking, especially this:



That's the problem, though! We know from the Appendices, Unfinished Tales etc. that Gandalf actively investigated Dol Guldur, found out the Necromancer was Sauron, got the key from Thráin in DG's dungeon, and planned the company's trip for the sole purpose of ousting Smaug to prevent an alliance between him and Sauron. In the books, Gandalf is the good side's mastermind and prime mover in the fight against evil, in the movies he's just accidentally made aware of Sauron's very existence by a bumbling fool on a friggin' bunny sleigh. To me it just totally diminishes Gandalf's entire character. Let alone Radagast's...

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Rohan - as it should have been. A house rule project.

If you have read the OP, he's been replaced. So yeah... As far as prosthetics vs motion capture; the prosthetics was brutal on John Rhys Davis, and Andy Serkis was afraid of not getting any real credit while he was shooting the mo-cap. So these things matters to an actor, I'm sure no matter what though Conan would have liked a legitimate role in The Hobbit under his belt, because as it stands he had only a split second shot of being a stunty in prosthetics on AUJ.

I liked the guy as Ser Gregor Clegane in GoT. Perfect. So hopefully the new guy brings the role some justice.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

Well the films been seen and its confirmed Bolg appears and has a large role... but is a totally new design

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I have a strong gut feeling that "original Conan Stevens Bolg" was not limited to the Battle of Azanulbizar when they originally shot the movies. Promotional photos place that character in Dol Guldur, and the action figure was sold in a two piece package with Galdalf. To me this indicates that orginal Bolg was meant to be the "commander of legions" type of orc, the one that would lead the forces of Sauron in the Battle of the Five Armies (as he did on the book too).

Original split point the two movie days was the barrels scene for the main characters. I think that Galdalf would have reached Dol Guldur in the original first movie, and faced "commander of legions", the original Bolg, there much in the same way as he faced Azog now.

It seems that at some point the film makers decided that new and mightier Azog woud be the "commander of legions" instead of the original Bolg. Originally Azog would have stayed on the hunt for longer. In the trailers Azog is shown to be at river gate fight. Also Games Workshop supplement has Azog leading the orcs during the barrels scene, and Narzug using poisoned arrows against Kili.

The original Bolg would not have looked right as a lieutenant of new Azog, or as a leader of the hunt, as he was never meant for those parts. As awesome as the original Bolg was, the script chances meant that he had to go.

So do we know why PJ made these changes that screwed over actors, merchandise makers and meant the first film had an obvious cgi villain? At that clsoe to the deadline, you'd think he'd have a good reason for it.

It's quite simple. The Yazneg design (which was designed to present Azog as a character, rather than a "big, brutal Orc" like the former Bolg/even former former Azog design) simply wasn't good enough. Sometimes a bad idea isn't instantly recognisable. It took a nearly complete AUJ to show that the 'old man' Azog wasn't working out. It wasn't intimidating enough to carry (at that point) three movies as a primary villain, and, frankly, looked a bit daft.

What we should bear in mind is that with LotR, Jackson had 2 years of pre-production to get everything set in stone (and even then, there were changes as things were put to film and it turned out some things weren't as successful in motion). With the Hobbit, he had a matter of months to pick up a nearly dead movie and get things in order (and he spent some of that time sick and in hospital). I essence, Jackson had to do pre-production whilst he went along, rather than getting it all sorted before filming.

Look at the evolution of the Goblin Town Goblins - the final animatronic masks were finished (I think) the day before the scenes were due to be shot (it was cutting it close, anyway). And then it took filming to realise that the actors were essentially boiling in the suits, and had to have their sweat literally poured out of them after each take. Unsustainable, and potentially dangerous. In the end, they finally made the goblins (almost) entirely digital.

Now consider the lead time that merchandisers require. These companies work upwards of a year in advance to prepare products and make sure everything is ready and produced and in stores for release day. With GW, we know that things are in the warehouse for a good three months before release, because of White Dwarf taking that long. The merchandisers were literally working off 1 year old scripts. The business simply couldn't change because of later (necessary) changes in film production. See lego releasing Yazneg themed sets, and even DoS sets, because when they designed their lines, there were only two movies. An entire movie had sprung out of thin air and they had no idea what to do with it. We're still seeing the effects of that now.

In short - it's a mess, but hopefully for the right reasons. The film HAS to come first - not partners, not actors, but the film itself. Jackson made his calls based on that.

^That last paragraph is very true, sorry Conan.


To tell the truth I prefer Prosthetic orcs over CGI orcs even though prosthetics don't emote/express very well. But in the case of a major role where acting is a necessity: A big guy in prosthetics vs CGI with the backing of a credible mo-cap actor... Maybe that's another way of looking at PJ's decision.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

I'm curious to find these original goblin town prosthetics. Are there videos/pictures of them?

There's some pictures/mention of it in the art and design WETA book for AUJ I think. Maybe in a Vlog too??

Get the extended edition DVD/Blu-ray. It's got a long section on Goblin Town in the appendecies.

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