My Friend works for GW and he has told me that due to increasing costs and decreasing profits GW will be shortly reducing the numbers of models from 12 to 10 in foot box sets and 6 to 5 in mounted boxsets, can anybody verify this?

When I look at the older collectors guides and I see boxsets containing 24 foot and 12 Mounted, I think to myself those were the days!

That may be a bit of a problem for GW to enact on existing plastics as the frames already have 12 infantry figures or 10 depending on the army. The same goes for cavalry. It would cost a lot to rejig those injection moulds.
However there is nothing to prevent them doing it on all future releases.

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It will probably be, that indeed all future releases wil consist of no more than 10 mini's per package. Isnt this the case with all hobbit releases?
I am very glad to have started collecting a long time ago... otherwise I would not have started nowadays..

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Iron sharpens iron
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Why doesn't some one tell them...
If they reduce the price they'll sell more! I would have bought all the hobbit stuff and LOADS of it, if it was at the same price as a few years ago £15-17 a box of 24. Now I refuse to buy any of it, so they are missing out big time, 20%increase on £0 = NOT A LOT.
But that's just my view (before I am pounced on by GWS pro gamers and the logic behind it) having spent £1000's on LotR and only the starter set on ebay for £50, I would love a return to the glory days, walking in to GWS an leaving with a bag full of figures

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Leonardis
Army blog:Http://www.thewarofthering.blogspot.co.uk/

Frankly, your friend's statement makes very little sense. We've already moved to 10-man boxed sets for the Hobbit, with the elves of Mirkwood and the men of Dale quite some time ago (although Uruk-hai and Easterlings have also always been 10-man sprues) and we have yet to see any plastic 5 man cavalry sets. They can't change this for the existing sprues and expect to turn a profit, as they would need to rework the sprues, and, as such, the associated molds -which is the most expensive part of plastic miniature making.
Any potential new plastic kits might indeed be 5 cavalry or 10 infantry models, yes, but the chance of existing plastic kits being changed from 12 to 10 models is extremely unlikely.

(Also, as a quick sidenote, cavalry have always been six-model kits. They were never packed per 12 in regular boxed sets, unless you consider the rider and their mount as separate models, in which case the 5-model possibility makes even less sense)

I really think GW doesn't understand how to make money or appeal to the customer base. The rising prices have cut my spending as well. I've bought only 2 Hobbit models and only have plans for a few more simply because the price point is so high. Hence my branching out into 4 other games lol

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It's the way its so short sighted that annoys me. I got into the hobby because I could buy stuff with pocket money as a teenager. As an adult with an income I can only occasionally buy stuff, and never impulse buy. Foster customers for life, that's the key.

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I know GW bashing is frowned upon, so I'll keep it short.
GW's policy nowadays is based upon a simple principle;
How much money can we make on those poor fools before the hobby dies out.

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Back to the actual topic (can moan about GW's policies for hours, but that's a waste of time, both mine and yours): such a change would involve recutting the sprues, which I do not expect to happen. It is probably by no means as expensive as creating a new mold, but it can be very tricky in many cases, depending on sprue layout (especially to remove two models, going down to 8 is a lot easier for many). Moreover, it would needlessly complicate the equipment options: which 2 (out of the usual 3) weapons would be dropped?

Also, there have never been normal boxes with 12 cavalry models (although army deals etc. could have had them in groups of 12). It used to be two sprues of infantry (2x12=24 models) or one sprue each of horses and riders (for a total of 6 mounted models).

As has been said, doing that to stuff that's already out would cost more than it'd save. They could half the content during the Great Scourging of LotR because most boxes were just two identical sprues, so they double their money. But to retool metal moulds is madness - the tooling of the mould is far and away the most expensive part of prodcution, so to do that again to save money is beyond even Gw's excess.

But definetly we shouldn't expect to see any new plastic kits in numbers of 12. That seems to be a decision GW made some time ago, and I expect it to hold true if we get any plastic for BOFA.

I thought it was 12 becoming 3 with all of the new troops!
As long as they don't increase the price again for less troops i won't mind too much, but I won't love it

Well I think that the rumor is old, we already went to 10, and they went from 5 metal to 6 plastic cav long ago, so I think that was just mis information.

I also don't think profits are down, if they meant 4 years ago when the down grade to 10 warriors began with obit production stuff, well then profits were down at that time. Now I think they are stable on that same low end. How can any company not figure out it's margins by now and customer base? it is almost jokingly easy to crunch numbers in a business.

As for anything else though, if I was going to give any merit to a profit decrease. I would have to chuckle that I spent over $1200 this year so far on GW. And I can't buy more unless they make more. So if they are going to switch to 10 model troops (as they have already) well then start making them please, I am waiting.

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http://www.sithious.webs.com

My suspicion is that profits are down due to the exorbitant present prices of the miniatures. Teenage boys make up the lion share of the market, and they have simply been priced out.

A deliberate strategy of manufacturing less and selling at a premium to a small group of obsessed collectors who will literally buy anything what is produced at whatever the asking prices are.

As for rising costs, this is utter nonsense as the shops have been reduced to one man shows and the majority of their products are nFlames of Warow produced in plastic and resin, which as a material is dirt cheap compared to metals even at a market low. I know the steel moulds for plastic sprues are expensive, but the moulds for fine cast really are not and £5 a figure for troops pushing up the cost of a warband of 12 Warriors of Lake Town and a Captain to £70 is completely unacceptable except for a few obsessed oddballs.

I am with Leonardis on this, if they were sold at a cheaper price I would literally have the entire range, at the present prices I have stopped buying over a year ago and spent around £1,000 on Flames of War. By pricing out there market leaves them vulnerable to competitors picking up alienated gamers. I suspect that this will be a good thing.

Well, I think another reason for the move from 12 to 10 on a sprue is the difference in the dimensional shape of the models. What do I mean? Well, the new models are more dynamic, more action poses etc. To do this requires multi part models due to the restrictions of using plastic injection. Going to muli part models allows the creation of undercuts like an actual flowing cloak. If you look at the new sprues they are packed, I don't think they could fit more injection sites. Could GW have increased the sprue size? Sure, but that drives up cost ( fewer sprues per mold ) and may be out of line with what their injection machines are capable of.
As an aside, I have purchased nothing beyond the starter set and the hardback rule book, which I don't use anyway. I have traded away all the goblins from the starter set and only kept the dwarves and wizards. I assembled and painted the terrain as I actually like it, but built some matching terrain out of coffee stir sticks from starbucks. I will not be buying anything else unless it is out of this world fantastic, I will trade for it. Can't buy it from my FLGS as they don't stock any LoTR or Hobbit anymore.

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richmondwarmancers we play Lord of The Rings, Battlefleet Gothic, Infinity, some board games, and really whatever tickles our fancy..

I hear the same from my own company, we laid off 8 workers, cut back a shift, raised prices and they keep telling me we are not making any money. go figure. But it is not material any more, it is rent and new machines that killed us. We had to rent a new warehouse for stocking more parts and had to buy a new $100K press. And we are a small company.

Games workshop I would bet is paying more rent and utilities then any of it's competition. Not saying it is a good thing. I think GW should stop selling at ANY stores and go online exclusive. Why not? That would save them a ton of business and would shut down ALL of the people selling their products for discount. I am just sick of excuses for rumors of no profits and price hikes, it is all BS. There is no reason that GW cannot control their profits and sales and make great profit at reasonable prices. They need to lose all the overhead, White Dwarf can go too since it is not needed at all with a perfectly good website that can show all of that.

I would like to hear next year that prices are awesome and people can't buy enough of the stuff, instead of hearing that people have not bought Anything. I am not buying everything BTW, I only buy what I think is good. I hope I never own a single corsair, I hate those models.

I agree about the placement of dynamic models on the sprue, that was exactly why I thought the Dol Guldor/Gundabad Orcs were Finecast instead, because they would only have fit 6 on a sprue anyway and possibly not as detailed with the helmets and faces.

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http://www.sithious.webs.com

When you think about it 12 has already become 10. GW were releasing 10 foot troops and 5 mounted miniatures per box at least three years ago with WHFB. I'm not sure about 40k as I have no interest in that, but I reckon it must be the same judging by all the Eldar stuff they're re-advertising at the moment (*cough* as if it's brand new but actually not at all *cough*).

For me, the hobby declined way back when 24 went down to 12, which must have surely been at least six years ago? After only buying 2 boxes of Rohan Soldiers (48 glorious troops) for a mere £30 or so, it gave me an immense pleasure in witnessing an army unfold right before my eyes, but now, this seems like an absolute struggle. To achieve the same wonderment today, I would need to dish out almost £100 or more, a near-unachieveable feat. Admittedly, I still collect WHFB, because it offers more diversity, customisation and personally I find these miniatures more fun to paint. I feel I get more for my money, as I can spend up to a week just savouring an eye-achingly painted Wood Elf Glade Guard, whereas with LOTR/The Hobbit, I struggle to avoid the 'generic' paint scheme for that unit, simply because it seems strange to paint a Rohirrim cloak in blue or a Lake-town Guard's tunic in green, it offers little or no 'freedom'.

But I digress. Apologies for going off-track, but I hate to see a hobby I cherish fall into decline so dramatically. The shift from 24 to 12, to 10, and most likely in a decade we'll see the 'single-miniature per box' product-wide overhaul, has already taken place in GW's other genres. In the up-and-coming range of Five Armies miniatures, I'll wager every release is either 10 plastic warriors per box, or the appallingly pathetic 3 finecast per clam-pack.

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Wise Old Elf

I completely agree with your sentiments Sithious, GW should abandon its store expansion programme which is there strategy. After reading their 6 month report to shareholders they state the 25% fall in profits on the previous year is going to be offset by store expansion. Personally I buy all of my orders online and find the store selection of products pathetic, by getting rid of rent overheads and bills they could pass all of these savings onto the customer and halve the cost of models. To get new customers they should be advertising not opening new stores

It is actually rather sad, but I simply do not value the store as I have never participated in any event there and generally speaking its not worth me going in as the range of products available there is Devlan Mud! I used to go in and would always buy something when prices were decent and they had pretty a comprehensive range of miniatures for sale. Sometimes I even came away with whole armies!

It is very interesting that a smaller company can manufacture in plastic (probably the cheapest manufacturing material on the planet) at £15 for 20 multi part figures:

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/ ... gures.html

and G.W. with all the established resources and captive market claim that they cannot!

I couldnt agree more!

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Leonidas, if only they saw the light, that would be a glorious day!

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Wise Old Elf