Are the GW prices our fault ?

londoncalling · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:27 am

Just been having my daily scan of ebay and coming away with my usual smile (disbelief disappeared a while back).

Am I missing something here ???

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lord-of-the-Rings-War-of-the-Ring-Movement-Trays-Infantry-/301226831484?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item462284ae7c

No? Then quick dig out all those limited edition plastic movement trays - that's right those ones using secret GW design and build technologies, and get them onto ebay quick !!

Dig out some of your metal duplicates (which according to a number of prolific professional ebay sellers are all ultra rare and worth 45 quid a blister) and you can all start paying off your mortgages, buy that new car and pay off your education !

GW should simply look at these prices and say wow, we could rerun the oop figures at £30 a blister and they will come running back from ebay, and the shareholders will be over the moon.

Unfortunately as many of us know collecting is an addiction and addicts will pay anything.

PS... and before you say "I wouldn't pay that much", enough people will pay since the prices reflect supply and demand......

Lord of Winterfell · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:37 am

I don't think its 'our' fault so to speak....but agree completely they should rerelease the metal blisters.

It's not going to happen though...

So I'll have to keep ebaying (Got an arathorn/halbarad blister for like £11 over the weekend) :rofl:

Sithious · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:03 pm

GW prices are our fault but not in a negative way, it is our fault we didn't want to buy 8 boxes of warriors how GW wanted us too and it is our fault we didn't want to then pay double the price for half the models (well I still buy them, but generally speaking most of our brothers and sisters could not do that). So GW has raised prices in reaction to low sales, and low sales would have happened anyway since once we have an army there is no need to buy that same army again right? Gw tried, it just didn't pan out, even if we could afford the higher price would we still want to buy 8 boxes of warriors for each army? I doubt it. and if we had, what then? would it escalate to 15 boxes, 20 boxes, what was going to be the limit of that route?

But Ebay is something different. I collect, Star Wars figures, GI joe figures, Marvel Universe, and well LOTR too. For the most part I got most of my rares and exclusives in person at conventions or at collectible stores that cater to people like me. For the most part I only went to Ebay for a last resort, because Ebay sellers are greedy. There are those few people who are like "I just want to sell this, will take whatever I can get low or high whatever..." those sellers I like as they are fair and honest, they don't wat the item they are selling and just want to pass It on. Other sellers are like "ok I want to get 3 times what I paid for this at least and if there is even a slight demand ten I will take blood and limbs from the poor sap who wants to buy this from me." These people look up prices, use every trick (rare, OOP) to take an unwanted item and make it sound like a value. They buy huge collections from the previous mentioned guys at a steal then break it up into chunks and sell it for more than gw prices or close to it. Thy do it for Star wars, for GI joe and even LOTR. They may have good reason, of course people want money and people want to get extra if they can. With LOTR I take it personal, they are taking advantage of my fellow hobbyists and at the same time putting down GW for doing the same thing. As if they are not making money because of GW, if you are selling their models, even second hand, then it is good GW provided the models and the demand for them right?
Just watch the OOP thing, it is a cop out. OOP means that it didn't sell well enough to warrant a remake in plastic or a rerelease in fine cast, so GW was happy to finally get rid of the back stock or destroyed the left overs (garbage) that didn't sell the first time... and suddenly some guy wants to sell it for double or triple? why, I didn't want it when it was retail, why would I want it now?
So Some Ebay sellers are very cool, sell at a small mark up or sell for a fair price for open lots... but there are vultures out there waiting for someone who doesn't know what they are worth to come along. Just do your research no matter what you are buying. Make sure that it really can't be found at a retail shop (which helps the store owners and the economy) before deciding to pay a mark up price, and make sure the value is equal to the value you would place on the item when you own it. I have bought many rare action figures over the years, and I have never felt taken advantage of, I always got a great deal, just have to know the system and talk to the sellers, 99% were not from ebay since that place is the last resort as the prices are always the worst for action figures and collectibles.

J.R. · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:50 pm

Lord of Winterfell wrote:

Ebay for a last resort, because Ebay sellers are greedy. There are those few people who are like "I just want to sell this, will take whatever I can get low or high whatever..." those sellers I like as they are fair and honest, they don't wat the item they are selling and just want to pass It on. Other sellers are like "ok I want to get 3 times what I paid for this at least and if there is even a slight demand ten I will take blood and limbs from the poor sap who wants to buy this from me." These people look up prices, use every trick (rare, OOP)

Well I do not completly agree with you, since I also sell many items on Ebay, some expensive some not. But the thing that made me price high was the bidding that got higher and higher. And to say that an ebayer is honest when he sells something he doesn't want sounds a bit rude to me. I Collect figures and rare items I find, from which some I do sell for the price collectors are willing to pay. I also put a lot of work/time in looking for rare mini's, so I think high prices for real rare mini's is fair.
This I do in all honesty, but if you mean sellers who are actualy lying about their product to join in on the price hike, then I agree:

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/MULTI-LIST-LOTR- ... 86f&_uhb=1

These are finecast miniatures, that are not rare and still for sale and in stock in my local gw website...... that's bad :roll:

Sithious · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:18 pm

it is a case of a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch. It is also the fact that many items can be attained cheaper if the person buying wants to put work in, join forums such as these where fair trades can be made. I expect actual rare figures to be higher price as you said by real bidding. But when you see long lists of set high prices for fairly common items selling at double the price, and not just LOTR. I have literally seen items at a retail store n the way to a convention where some person is buying the figure right next to me at triple. No lie, seen it too many times in convention rounds.
I have sold on ebay, and even ten there are some slick buyers out there too. I always set my price at a slight loss or exact cost and as you said, it goes p by bids, nothing you can do about that. And it is nice when you get a genuine and honest score of a good sale to someone who obviously wanted the item enough to give it that value. I just don't like when items are high priced starts to jack prices of common items. That $400 Buy Now Limited Edition Hobbit Escape From Goblin Town I see everytime I search ebay is a good example I mean.
The other issue is the risk of quality, you don't know the seller so how do you know how the items are going to be. You take the buyer beware risk. Including with value, some things do get rereleased or become less demanded, even rare items.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:22 pm

I've developed a cozy relationship with an ebay seller. Apparently I've become such a valued customer, always paying promptly (typically a couple hours after auctions conclude) and buying up so much of his collection (~ £100 / ~30 miniatures over the last few months) that he frequently throws in extra minis as a free bonus.

2x Legolas, Lurtz, Khazad Dum Gandalf, Grima, Galadriel (original)...

Hes a very generous guy and I highly recommend him.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/1466colin

JamesR · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:36 pm

I have a lot of good eBay experiences, but there are definitely some who try and overcharge significantly

mertaal · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:00 pm

Some people actually make their living selling things on eBay. Suggesting they're greedy because they want the best price they can get for something they own is like your boss calling you greedy when you ask for a pay rise after 4 years.

If you don't like the price something is advertised at then don't buy it. Some people price high, others don't. Some people want X figure NOW, even if the price is higher than if they waited a few months. Those people will buy from the seller you think is "greedy" (but who is probably just trying to raise a family and pay the bills). Other buyers are happy to wait for months at a time, bidding the amount they want to pay on every copy which comes up over that time period, and getting outbid every time but the last...
Different sellers cater to different expectations. If you think it's too expensive then that person isn't your seller.

I find collector's attitudes towards the professionals who's living it is to supply their hobby is often rather shoddy, and wish people would remember that their hobby may well be someone else's living, which they're entitled to just as much as you are each payday. Some collectors are happy to throw their money around (and thus support people who work in the industry), while others are very careful of their money. Both types of collector are fine, but if you're the latter, don't blame the seller because they don't meet your limited expectations.

The bottom line is this- nobody is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't like the price don't buy it. However, when the last 10 Halbarad's with Banner sold for £40 or more, there really is nothing wrong with a seller putting one up as a BIN for £65, just in case someone really is willing to pay £25 more for the pleasure of getting it immediately.

Sithious · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:18 pm

I did not mean to offend people making a 'living' selling stuff.

But I have stood in a isle looking at the wall of stuff and had a guy say "looking for ________? I have ten in my car I grabbed them all, I will sell you one for __________."

So I say, umm, had you not bought the thing you don't want then it would be here on the shelf so I could pay retail price. and if you wanted a job selling these things then fill out an application with the store.

I work for a living, many of us do. I don't like the idea of people taking advantage of misinformed people buying, making a market price on lie's or creating a demand by removing any other way to obtain an item. It is very hard to get nice lots of figures because there are so many people making a living buying these lots and reselling them. I also think that if you are making a living off ebay, then you are taking a gamble and should seek employment with a better structured income and benefits.

Looks like I have worn out my welcome on yet another forum for LOTR

, I am sorry. I have had many bad experiences in the last ten ears with ebay sellers. I had guys cut in front of me at conventions and buy the entire table so I could not buy the items I want and then they turn around and try to sell the items to me saying check my ebay. One of the guys I know very well and hate with passion, he snaked a purchase right from my hands for a rare GI Joe figure I was about to get for $2 and then I went to his store the next day to make him a offer and he said $200. I reminded him that I knew what he paid, but he said, it is not what he paid it is what it is worth. So that figure should have gone to a nice collectors home (mine) and went to a store so some guy could make a living off people like me. I should shake his hand and thank him for helping me get my stuff right? Thanks buddy. NO thanks, again, you can find the items cheaper. I say, don't ever pay more than retail price if you can and make those people come down to meet the real prices of things or step out the business. I may have offended the sensitive ears of some, but my point was that buyers need to do the research and make sure that the item is really worth that price or decide what price they think is fair and try to bid to that level... I did not mean to lump all ebay sellers in as greedy wolves trying to suck money out of pockets, there are some, I meant to tell buyers to make sure they are buying correctly so that sellers that are honest will make their living and be fine. There are great sellers out there, and if a buyer is bidding correctly then there is no reason that the buyer and the seller cannot both be happy.
If you make a honest living off ebay, you should not find offense to anything I said.

mertaal · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:39 pm

No need to overreact. It's possible to exist on a forum with people who disagree with you on certain things. For the record, I've found you to be a nice guy and think you make useful and decent contributions to the community.

But on this point, I certainly don't agree, and as someone who is self employed selling second hand things (antiques, in my case) I respect the right of someone to make a living by buying and selling things. The world needs middle men. There's nothing wrong with earning a living as an (honest) car dealer, estate agent, antiques dealer, house clearance specialist, stamp, antique or book dealer. I also think it's both unrealistic and impractical to presume that all people deal directly with each other and never have the benefit of being able to sell what you have immediately. Middle men increase supply, and therefore improve, not reduce, demand.

Imagine if there were no professional sellers on eBay. The vast majority of miniatures people wanted to sell at, lets say, a boot sale (yard sale is the US equivalent I think?), would still be sitting in an attic somewhere collecting dust because at the boot sale nobody wanted them, and the professional seller wasn't there to pick them up and put them on the market.
Reduced supply means increased prices, and worse- less gamers, because it'd be so much less possible to complete your army, and collecting is a fun and important aspect of the hobby. EBay and eBay professional sellers facilitate the market, improve supply, and therefore keep prices stable and fair. Please feel free to list a model for 6x what it's actually worth, and see how you get on. I'll warrant it's still there in 5 years, as people will just buy the other 10 that are on eBay at any one time, which are cheaper than yours.
The market fluctuates, and weird things happen, but it is not generally stupid. So the illusion that there are all these unscrupulous eBay sellers out there ripping off honest collectors by selling them models many times more than they are worth is a stupid myth. More than you're willing to pay? Sure. 6x more than it's worth? No. A few morons try, but they don't do well.

On the subject of your posting, a number of people before me pulled you up on the comments you made in your original post precisely because you did say that all eBay sellers were greedy, whether you meant to or not. Your last post qualifies this somewhat, but i think it's a touch disingenuous to suggest nobody should have been offended by your first post unless they themselves were dishonest.

Sithious · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:01 pm

I see what you mean abut my first post. Screaming fire in theater. All Ebay Sellers are Greedy... yup I said it again.

But this time as light hearter banter to help with what I was trying to actually say. Buyers, you don't know the person on Ebay, so act as if they are all trying to make money. As a buyer you are trying to save money if you can. So, wade in the water is if they are all sharks, check the prices on the item, do more refined searches on an item ad see if there are better auctions or retail out there. And when you decide to buy, make sure you place a value o watyou are buying so you know what you are willing to pay or willing to lose in the deal to obtain tat item you want.

And when you need a 1885 antique bookshelf to show your models on, Mertaal is a stand up guy and will probably find you something nice for a fair price.

No hard feelings fella's.
as this topic is suggesting that ebay sales are justifying GW price hikes, I am helping the buyers beware and not let common items become high priced for nothing.

mertaal · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:19 pm

Not a chance- i'll screw 'em in to the ground!!

In fact, with regard to the OP, I think it might even be GW prices bringing up the eBay prices, by increasing people's expectations of what a model can be worth.

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

If a product sells for a huge price on ebay, it means that at least a mighty two people are very interested in that item. GW can't build or maintain a business based on a handful of customers willing to spend a lot of money (although recent pricing strategies lead me to believe they're relying on such people more and more).
New releases are structurally more expensive than the last nowadays, regardless of popularity of the army or even game system. One can argue that they can cash in on popular releases by sticking a big pricetag on the items, or that they have to compensate for expected low sales of a less popular release by increasing the prices. Prices will continue to increase if people stay willing to pay them, while a drop in sales will result in higher prices to compensate for these. At the end of the day, prices are increasing anyway. Period.

Would GW be using ebay as a measure of what sells and what doesn't, they definitely would have re-released Gandalf the Grey on horseback by now...

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:34 pm

Honestly, this 'Gw and Us' debate is the stupidest thing surrounding this hobby.

Without going to the extent Id be able to in person(because this is a family site)....Ill try to make this as simply as possible.

We as customers, were screwed.

The prices changed for NO reason.

The profits went down, after the prices went up.

Now, Lotr fans are being pushed so far from the hobby, that buying from the stores, that rarely support us(At least in the US) is barely an option.

This topic alone, upsets me to a large degree. It insults me personally, as someone who gave thousands of dollars to this company, and is now an ebay seller.

Just yesterday I went to my local GW where the manager tries to support the hobbit, and I spent $106 on what I could have gotten in trade or on ebay, just because that man does help the Hobbit.....

But.....do you really think, that a company that tries to push us out of the hobby, raises our prices, and makes it nearly impossible to enjoy this hobby, has any foothold in this debate?

You know why those prices are high? Because of supply and demand. GW gave up and started putting stuff OOP when they are releasing the best model ever because their plan for the future is the end of the rights to the LOTR. Theyre making their money off rich people, and serious collectors. Sure, the average player can buy a good handful of products, but theyre relying on those with throw away funding to buy this stuff now.

Supply and demand....games workshop puts stuff OOP and the price goes up.....and thats our fault OP?????

It goes to the highest bidder. Its capitalism. The same process GW used in their press releases to explain why 10 Mirkwood Rangers cost as much as 40 Easterlings lmfao..... :yay:

A warband of Gundabad Orcs with captain costs bare minimum $100 without warband leader.... try to make an army with them and Hunters even.....not many people can buy that today especially with the economy.

I LOVE the Gundabad models.......Id literally buy probably 3 boxes if they were even 10 for $40 like the rangers. But at these prices, instead of getting $120 from me, they get 0. And they know this. Because theyre trying to get us to drop the hobby. Its common sense.....

I have more than enough money to buy what I want from GW but often REFUSE to because of their business practices.

Its absolutely ridiculous to me and borderline insulting anyone could imagine that were the reason for the Games Workshop prices.....Smh.....

Dead Marsh Spectre · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:08 pm

GW prices our fault? gimme a break.

Are the GW prices our fault ?

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