Sauron outside of Mordor

Hodush · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:34 am

Hey guys,

I am just wondering what you imagine when you read parts of Tolkien where Sauron or even Melkor are said to be outside of their strongholds.

For example, Sauron went to the Elves as Annatar, the lord of gifts. Presumably, he didn't have his dark lord armour which we see in the films until after he makes the one ring and I would think until after he returns from Numenor. When he went to Numenor is another time that I imagine he wouldn't have been decked out in wargear.

So what do you guys think he would have worn and carried? A sword, axe or mace? What style of armour? Just fashionable clothes (and which orc had interests in Prada and Gucci to be able to tailor something)? Lots of bling or just a crown or ring?

Once you have thought about those, how big was he? Tolkien often uses tall to indicate strength, but would Sauron have chosen to be a bit taller than an elf so as to not cause problems when he went to treat with Dwarves, Elves & Men?

It would be great to know your thoughts, I'm thinking about it for some sculpting and house rules as well as just generally.

Wise Old Elf · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:19 am

In terms of appearance, I'd imagine he was something like Saruman in death, a wandering spirit in a vaguely human form. At least, that's how I imagine it. And doesn't Tolkien briefly suggest that as Sauron's power grew so too did his stature? I swear I remember something along those lines. With the creation of the One Ring, Sauron grew taller and stronger, the Ring of course could shape itself to the owner's own hand. I believe it shrunk when Isildur took it from Sauron's corpse, and again when Frodo contemplates it, hence why he chooses to keep it chained round his neck, in case it were to expand and slip off his finger.

rigg1313 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:37 am

Sauron was known to be a shapeshifter, so when he treated with the other races he choose to appear 'fair' it is said in the books. Probably the male equivalent to Galadriel. Height wise he was probably tall because as you said tolkien relates it to strength/power (tall being a tall elf/man not sauron in pimped out armour tall).

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:06 am

Much as rigg suggests, sauron had the ability to appear very normal. I imagine he appeared something like this... PS- This image is not mine. Credit to the artist.

After the sinking of numenor, sauron loses his ability to appear fair, and can only appear in a terrifying form. Thus he rules through terror and fear. Good luck on your project, be sure to post on the forums so we can see how it goes!

JamesR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:37 am

If you watch the behind the scenes part of ROTK it shows Sauron in his "fair" form at the black gate. Aragorn was originally going to fight Sauron there and he first appeared as his "fair" form and then shifted to the Armored up version to fight. The scene was changed to the Troll chieftain we all know and love, and the light was changed to originate from the fiery eye instead

Seren Nishiyama · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:24 am

Annatar at the Black gate.

rigg1313 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:13 am

I think they should have kept the sauron 'spirit' in the movie because that makes more sense than aragorn spacing out and staring at the eye for 30s then saying for frodo and charging but once the fighting began had him disappear and continued with the aragorn vs troll chief fight

Glory4gondor · **Joined:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:57 pm **Posts:** 137

I always pictured a unnatural good looking elf or man. Always wanted them to do something with him at the fall of Ost-in-Edhil.

Wise Old Elf · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:05 pm

rigg1313 wrote:

I think they should have kept the sauron 'spirit' in the movie because that makes more sense than aragorn spacing out and staring at the eye for 30s then saying for frodo and charging but once the fighting began had him disappear and continued with the aragorn vs troll chief fight

Or at least reinvented him in The Hobbit. Personally I dislike the black smog Azog seems to be talking to in the films, it would have been nice if occasionally we could see a mouth moving or hand gestures creeping out of the shadows. He could have looked similar to the Twilight Nazgul, but black rather than luminous grey.

JamesR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:32 pm

I agree although it makes sense as Saruman says in The Fellowship that gee cannot yet take physical form. Which makes me wonder if that includes a "twilight Wraith" form as they have a more direct link to the physical world

Warlord · **Joined:** Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:50 am **Posts:** 78

In the interviews from the extended edition of ROTK, PJ joked about wanting to cast Kate Winslet as Sauron in the form of Annatar in the Black Gate scene.

Amarthadan · **Posted:** Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm

As Annatar: White hair, very good-looking and handsome, the kind of guy you'd be gay for.

Hodush · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:41 am

Thanks Amarthadan, exactly the kind of description I was after. I've been tossing up about the hair.

People haven't said much about the armour or weapons, any thoughts?
Currently, I am thinking of a sword and less practical armour (as he still wants to appear fair), which could then lead to the development of his "you can't kill me" armour and mace.

JamesR · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:45 am

I have no clue cannon-wise what his weapon would be but I'd vote for his trusty mace, the fact that it would give clues to his being less-than-pure would be great IMO

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:17 am

Mace, good choice. Very much a cleric. Sauron represents melkore much like a cleric represents his deity. It would also be appropriate to give him a sword or spear as that is very tolkein

Hodush · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:20 pm

Sorry to be a pest, but I really want to know what people think Sauron was wearing in terms of battle get-up at the start of the War of the Elves and Sauron (where he tried to get back the newly made rings).

Thanks jdizzy and JamesR - Initially I was very against Sauron having the mace (for my own storyline reasons), but your imaginations have prompted me to find an alternative storyline for the mace, which I have done

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:17 pm

A very tolkein thing for him to wear would be chainmail. The majority of tolkiens characters wear chainmail. Hauberk and a helmet. However, it is hard to look sinister in just a hauberk and helmet. So maybe a robe/ hauberk combo. A roberk.

abcdefg · **Joined:** Mon May 28, 2012 3:52 pm **Posts:** 273

what exactly is the situation you want to depict? Sauron going into battle? The other thing I would wonder about is his height. Surely when he appeared fair he wasn't as tall. Perhaps his height grew with his descent to darkness?

Sauron outside of Mordor

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