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Tolkien and Uruk-hai!
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=14317		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Tolkien and Uruk-hai!
I was just wondering does anyone know if Tolkien ever mentioned Uruk-hai berserkers and crossbowmen? Or are these just what PJ made up for the films? I know lots of people also hate GW's idea of Isengard trolls, but does anyone know of a mention of trolls from Isengard in the LOTR books?

Lastly is there any evidence in Tolkien's writings that proves the likes of shamans existed? In "Characters From Tolkien" by David Day, it says:

"In Middle-earth there were beings of many races who wielded sorcerous powers."

Then all it talks about are the humans who gave themselves over to sorcerous powers, who were called witches and the most famous ones, the Ringwraiths.

Does anyone have any idea how reliable this is? :)
Author:  FirieloftheHavens [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is no mention of crossbowmen, beserkers or shamans in Tolkien (though interestingly, Tolkien mentions pikes in Unfinished Tales). There is no mention of Isengard Trolls either and as there is a pretty comprehensive description of Isengard's army as Merry and Pippin see it marching out we can safely assume that, as far as JRRT was concerned, they didn't exist.

David Day is reckoned to be pretty good, and what he says here (I have a copy of the book myself) is accurate to what Tolkien says. However, we know from Tolkien that beings can have influence in the unseen, spirit world (ie. have magical powers), then it's mentioned that all elves have a small amount of this, from men, only sorcerors do. He doesn't say anything about orcs so perhaps they never have sorcerous powers (though it's worth remembering that orcs are inately magical, like elves, even if they have no "active " power).
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Thanks!
Thanks FirieloftheHavens!
8)
Oh, by the way, did Tolkien ever mention that the Ringwraiths were different in power and name- like what GW has done with giving them titles?

Thanks! :)
Author:  gaarew [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Witch-king and Khamul were the only Ringwraiths to be given names. GW just used some artistic license to expand upon this.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Okay, so he never gave them names. But did he ever mention that they had different powers or roles?

Thanks! :)
Author:  Amarthadan [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
King Elessar the Uniter wrote:
Okay, so he never gave them names. But did he ever mention that they had different powers or roles?

Thanks! :)


In the book, it's said that while Khamul had the most magical power of them all (apart from the Witch-King), his powers diminished the most in daylight.

Rueben
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Amarthadan wrote:
In the book, it's said that while Khamul had the most magical power of them all (apart from the Witch-King), his powers diminished the most in daylight.


Interesting! Thanks! 8)
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Uruk-hai!
Right another question... :-D

How did Tolkien decribe Uruk-hai? (In terms of Strength, Fighting Ability and Courage). I know the Uruks were stronger than normal Orcs, but how did they compare to men?

Cheers! :)
Author:  Dagorlad [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
There's a good description of them in the chapter 'The Uruk-hai' in the book 'The Two Towers' but essentially...

They are described as being almost man-height, black skinned, fierce and trained to withstand the daylight. They are contemptuous of the Orcs of Mordor, whom they consider to be inferior, and treat the goblins of Moria as slaves and vassals. It was the Uruk-hai that slew Boromir, while the Orcs of Mordor hung back in fear. They were cunning warriors and had a sound understanding of tactics and discipline.

They were probably the equal to men in many ways, and more savage and violent in combat.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dagorlad! 8) Yeah, I read that chapter before posting this question, but I was still a little unsure on how Uruks compare to other races (especially men) and just wanted to hear some opinions about the matter. (I don't totally agree with the profile that GW gives Uruk-hai).

Dagorlad wrote:
They were probably the equal to men in many ways, and more savage and violent in combat.


Do you think then that Uruk-hai were stronger than men? :)
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