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Eyes
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20002		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Warlord777 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Eyes
Hey I have had this problem ever since i started painting,,,,i just can't paint eyes. I tried the ways in the Tomes of Wisdom but they didnt help much,,if it helps you in helping me the figures im painting are the high elves from TLA. Thanks.
Author:  Red Corsairs [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Eyes are always a pain, even to the more talented painters. I've never been able to get them right, the closest I think I've ever gotten is on my most recently painted Faramir (Ranger) mini.

I can only really give you the advice that is already there in the Tomes of Wisdom articles, use a tiny brush, get the smallest dot of paint on the brush and try and keep a really steady hand. Try practising over and over again on unwanted miniatures as you might find it helps. Also try and practise different methods of painting the eye (black dot over white, white edges over black etc).

That's probably not much help, but like I said the articles are probably the best tutorials for painting eyes, so if they didn't work, you just need to keep practising the method untill you get the hang of it (which I still haven't gotten the hang of so don't get too frustrated if you don't get it straight away).

Good luck!
Author:  agincourt777 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
i find that just one eye isn't too difficult, its getting two that don't look cross eyed or different sizes thats tricky.

one thing i find helps is to look at the models face upsidedown once both eyes are painted because for some reason its easier to see differences between them then. it probably sounds really weird and stupid but it helps me when im trying to get both eyes to match up. :s

to be honest though, TLA high elves are probably some of the hardest models to paint eyes on.the faces arent brilliantly sculpted and the helmet doesnt help either. they're also very slightly smaller than most new releases.

also, when painting the pupil i try and make it so that it just touches the top and bottom of the white area. a tiny dot in the middle can make it look a bit 'stary'. sorry iv'e probably phrased that horribly.
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Doing eyes is like performing surgery and it's especially hard on lotr models which are small. This is how I go about doing it even though I'm not always perfect.

The brush: I use the very tip of a fine detail brush. Must be wet but not with excess water that will dilute and make the paint run out of the contours of the eyes, also not too dry where the paint becomes difficult to apply. The tip must be always pointy as much as possibly, so I sleek the brush with the tip of my fingers.

Applying paint: Is done slowly and steadily with patience and eye-hand coordination. Easier said than done. Only my middle, index finger, and thumb holding the brush moves forward to apply paint, everything else is still. Usually do one eye ball at a time between applying because the paint on the tip dries up quickly and gets spent quickly as well to make one run at both eyeballs. Always rinse the dry paint away and dry the brush before reapplying fresh paint because the dried up paint on a brush can interfere with how the fresh paint applies on the model.

The white oval: Use a bit of paint at the very tip. When I paint (right handed) I brush at a slight angle motioning left to right, I don't dab tip point first.

The iris: This is tricky and where I mess up most times where my models become cross eyed. If they're not dead centered staring straight forward, I'll settle for the model staring down, left or right. Hopefully not give him an eye glass look also. I make sure I have a slight bloge of paint on the tip rather than a thin coat so it leaves a proper size rather than a spec of a pupil. I dab the tip point head on with the eye.

Pupil: Usually I do them only for heroes because it's time consuming and a pain in the ass to apply to say a 24 warrior box set. This is where I use a thin coat at the tip and apply quickly before the paint dries. This I dab head on with tip point as well while trying not to press hard to not bend the tip.

Steady hands: Personally my hands are shaky so I need support. My model is in my left hand held off of the table and the brush in the right hand. Both arms are rested on the table opposed to each other, from elbow, forearm, wrist, to the bottom half of side palm on the pinky finger side. I hold the model pinched between my index and thumb while the middle finger holds the bottom half and side base and the base of the model is lying on top of the side of the fourth finger. My right pinky finger connects underneath the base of the model for extra support while the fourth finger of the right hand makes firm contact with the tip of my left thumb (tip is protruding pass model while the thumb joint is holding it). This contact steadies both hands for me and reduces the trembling. Now only the fingers holding the brush moves forward like injecting a needle into a vein. My head is leaned close to focus on the model's eyes.

I can also achieve steadiness by having both elbows on the table and the model held up in the air at eye level so I don't have to stress my neck. Here I connect my thumb side of the left hand (between upper palm and thumb joint) to the thumb side of my right hand (specifically the palm) to steady both hands.

Hope this wasn't too detailed for you, and I know it's hard to imagine when reading it.
Author:  Erunion [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
To be honest, I really don't bother with eyes on rank-and-file troops. Even some of my heroes, depending on the mini, are squinting! It is a very difficult thing to get right. Many times I will do the eyes after I have given the face its base coat, but before I do the highlighting so that I can fix any errors.
Author:  Warlord777 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Well thanks for all of the help (especially to Sacrilage ) for taking the time to write those answers out ill try all of the ways and let you know.
Author:  valpas [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
I have found the most important thing to very sparingly use white. As Erunion said, most rank and file troops can do without and it's better to not paint eyes than have too much white showing. And when I paint the eyes, I make absolutely sure that white never ever shows from both above and below the iris.

I have to admit that with miniatures sculpted by the master Tom Meyer, I have to cheat. They are 28 mm, but more realistically proportioned than LotR models and have tiny faces and eyes. I sometimes have to use a 0.03 mm technical drawing pen to dot the pupil because my hands and eyes are not up to the task.

Quote:
i find that just one eye isn't too difficult, its getting two that don't look cross eyed or different sizes thats tricky.


That's true for drawing too! Which is why I like to draw pirates. Eye patches! :)

-- Pasi
Author:  Angularity [ Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
The eyes are the first part of a figure that I paint. First the white, then a black iris/pupil, that goes over the eyelids. The centre of the pupil is almost always directly above the ends of the mouth (look in the mirror and you'll see), unless your figure is doing a cut to the right while glancing at his next opponent on his left...Then I put on the base colour for the rest of the face, and the eye lids are painted to form the eye.

This is of course a lot more challenging if they're wearing helmets, like those boys from Rohan. In that case they don't look like steely-eyed dealers of death, more like smudgy-eyed wanderers in fancy dress.
Author:  theavenger001 [ Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Here's how I do eyes.

- Undercoat face with flesh colour.
- paint a small oval of dark flesh, this will be outline/shadow around the eye.
- paint a small oval/circle of white in the dark flesh, try to leave some dark flesh showing ao all sides.
- paint a small dot of black in the middle of the white.
- take skin undercoat and touch up aruond the eye's (if needed)

I find that painting the dark flesh really helps me get the white (and thus the black) a nice small size. I find that lots of times it's possible for me to get the eye's smaller and more realistic if I paint the dark flesh rather than skipping that and just doing white then black.
Here's a picture of an Elladan that I painted, the eye that you can see was painted with this technique.

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=12&image_id=305
Author:  BizzareWarstar [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
If you paint the face first and then the eyes its handy to keep a small peice of tissue near by and another brush with just water on it. When you make a mistake use the brush to flood the area with water and the tissue to soak it up, works pritty well and might save you from painting parts of the face again.
Author:  Red Corsairs [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Some nice techniques in here that I might have to test out on some plastics :)
Author:  Gandlaf the Grey [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
I did a guide for Haradrim in the Tomes of Wisdom that shows in photos my technique for doing eyes. It won't be for everyone but it works for me.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
People usually paint the eye that is on the same side as their painting had better(so if you are right handed the right eye will usually be easier and look better), so one way to paint the other eye is to flip the mini upside down that way its on the same side. :) Other than that everyone before me has given great advice. Putting down a dark coat like avenger works great for making the eyes stand out. You also dont necessarily need a super fine brush. I can usually do eyes with a 1, but sometimes need to go down to a 0. Also once you get the pupil in you can try to put a even smaller dot of white in the pupil, it will make it look like the eye is shining and really bring your mini to life.
However, this all takes practice so most importantly like Red Corsairs said PRACTICE and you will get it.
This tut by Jen Haley should be helpful: http://www.paintrix-miniatures.com/articles.php?&art=7&page=2
Author:  valpas [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Noddwyr wrote:
People usually paint the eye that is on the same side as their painting had better(so if you are right handed the right eye will usually be easier and look better), so one way to paint the other eye is to flip the mini upside down that way its on the same side. :)


:!:

How come I've never realized that?!? I always get white paint on the nose (the mini's nose, not mine usually) while painting the other eye. That's the simplest and best advice I've read or heard this year.

-- Pasi
Author:  Blue Dragon [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Luck people who are ambidexterous don't have to though. I'm only left handed myself.
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
Well Warlord I hope with all these tips, they have improved your painting of eyes.
Author:  Warlord777 [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
They have Im waiting for some Minis to come in the mail from LOTRCrown to try on un-helmeted figures.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
valpas wrote:
Noddwyr wrote:
People usually paint the eye that is on the same side as their painting had better(so if you are right handed the right eye will usually be easier and look better), so one way to paint the other eye is to flip the mini upside down that way its on the same side. :)


:!:

How come I've never realized that?!? I always get white paint on the nose (the mini's nose, not mine usually) while painting the other eye. That's the simplest and best advice I've read or heard this year.

-- Pasi

Glad I could help. :)
Author:  Warlord777 [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
I am trying to post some pics but having troubles with my camera.
Author:  thebalrogofmorgoth [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eyes
you dont see the eyes under the helmet so clear. so, I do dont paint the eyes, I layes them in shadow. but if you want to paint the eyes black & white i can not help you. (I am not so good at painting)
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