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Balrogs Whip
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21583		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BizzareWarstar [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Balrogs Whip
Hey guys, I'm looking for some insight from anyone who has assembled a Balrog, I have the one with the flaming whip and it seems the hand might need pinning becasue of the whip's length, trouble is I havent a drill or bit and was wondering could I get away without pinning the whip hand, would GS or glue be enough to hold it ?.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I assembled a balrog with whip but it was plastic and didn't need pinning :)
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I thought that the Balrogs with whips only came out in plastic. Do you have a metal version?
Author:  theOneRider [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
If it's plastic, & doesn't get handled too hard, plastiweld should do fine.
If you can, though, it would be a good idea to invest in a pin-vice & some small bits when you can.
Author:  BizzareWarstar [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
Sacrilege83 wrote:
I thought that the Balrogs with whips only came out in plastic. Do you have a metal version?

Yeah sorry, I should have said its the metal one. I did'nt even know there was plastic versions, I thought it was just the wings.

theOneRider wrote:
If you can, though, it would be a good idea to invest in a pin-vice & some small bits when you can.

I was hoping I would'nt have too just for this miniature but I'm getting doubtful.
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I know the balrog your talking about, its the Denizens of Moria one - metal with whip. If your planning on gaming with it then imo you need to pin it. I am just a collector who as yet doesn't game at all and I had a hell of a job glueing that hand on without a pin. In fact after two years of sitting in a display case I think that hand still has a bit of movement when handled.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
Weird, Sacrilege83 didn't know you could get a metal Baltog with whip and BizzareWarstar didn't know you could get a plastic one. Well, you learn something new everyday.
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I don't know about you guys but when I assemble large metal pieces I don't pin at all, I don't even use green stuff, mostly because I don't want to be troubled by all the hard work that is involved. I always had this problem though when I use the GW super glue, it takes the metal pieces a long time to set in and hold together. From a few minutes to several, and they say it only takes ten seconds to set in. This becomes troublesome to sit there, not answer the phone and hold together two pieces which sometimes the positioning is awkwards for the hands. So what I do is add one coat of paint to the area I'm about to glue. Then when I apply the glue the paint the melts right into it after a small moment of friction between the two parts. What this does is create an adhesive where superglue by itself is too liquidy and runs off the metal, the paint keeps most of it where it should be and becomes mushy isntead of liquid.

Now I don't know how reliable this is in the long run, my cave troll has remained glued for three years now. I glued my Dark Elf Hydra in this way and played a few games with it and the five heads still hold strong. Question is will the glue still hold decades from now? I can't tell you how my metal Balrog was assembled because I picked it up assembled & primed second hand.
Author:  theOneRider [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
That's a great idea, Sacrelige83. I'll have to try that when I get started on my balrog display!

BizzareWarstar wrote:
I was hoping I would'nt have too just for this miniature but I'm getting doubtful.
I can certainly understand that. However, speaking as someone who's almost exclusively a hobbyist these days, a good pin-vice is actually a more valuable tool than even your hobby knife for when you want to make modifications. I'm not telling you that you have to go out right now and buy one, I'm just saying that it'll open up so many new options for your armies that you'll wish you'd gotten one sooner.
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I second that - they are really really useful!
Author:  BizzareWarstar [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
Dead Marsh Spectre wrote:
I am just a collector who as yet doesn't game at all and I had a hell of a job glueing that hand on without a pin.

Cool, I was unaware it even had a name. I'm more of a collector too, my average games played in a year is about one. From what you've said about your Balrog though, I think now I would prefer to pin mine just to be safe.

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Weird.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that too, what's the odds eh ?

@Sacrilege83: that's a really good idea, makes sense. I will have to try it out sometime. For this piece though, I think I will use a pin just to be safe. Perhaps glue both ends of the pin and then seal it up with GS, all three, its got to hold.

theOneRider wrote:
speaking as someone who's almost exclusively a hobbyist these days, a good pin-vice is actually a more valuable tool than even your hobby knife for when you want to make modifications.

Sound advice, reminds me when I use to think I didn't need a proper sculpting tool, be difficult to work without it now. Thinking on that premise I'll probably end up getting a pin vice, pinning is definitely the best option in this case for a secure joint and peace of mind.

Its a little trivial but I noticed the GW pin vice comes with six of the same size bits, is that because the GW's bits are weaker or do those smaller bits break anyway no matter where you get them from?
Author:  theavenger001 [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
BizzareWarstar wrote:
Dead Marsh Spectre wrote:
Its a little trivial but I noticed the GW pin vice comes with six of the same size bits, is that because the GW's bits are weaker or do those smaller bits break anyway no matter where you get them from?

Depends on how careful you are with them. :P But seriously, if you try to go to fast and push too hard they can break. I don't think GW's will break any faster than others, they're just small and thin and fragile. You need to go slowly and have patience. I would recomend that you get your pin vice from elsewhere though, if possible. Purely because you can get one for 1/2 the price of GW's.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I broke several of the bits from mine whilst pinning one of Shelob's legs.
Author:  theOneRider [ Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I don't have the GW one, but when you're drilling into pewter (the metal they've been using) and especially lead-free pewter, the bits can dull when you least expect it.
I'm looking for an order confirmation from a bet dealer I know, but it may have to wait until I get home. They're a great source for a truly amazing range of bit sizes. I think they're based here in America, though, so you'd probably want to plan ahead & place large orders.
Otherwise, all you need to do is follow the same rules for drilling anything: keep it straight, don't push too hard, keep the bit turning when you're drawing it back out, etc.
Author:  BizzareWarstar [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Balrogs Whip
I bought a pin vice locally and did the deed, put a little GS in with it, worked great, nice solid bond. Thanks for the advice guys :) ...on to the rest of him now.

@GothmogtheWerewolf that's a nice miniature but the legs looking like a nightmare assembly disaster kit put me off a little, too bad all those bits broke on just one piece. I'll keep it it mind though as I'll probably get Shelob at some point.
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