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SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
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Author:  ScarpeIron [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
I'm looking into making a 500pt Elven Haven/Rivendell Elven list and have some questions. They are expensive for what little choices one is offered.

I could have sworn I read somewhere that Elven Blades allow for Elven warriors to perform "shielding" with them. I read in the rulebook that the blades can be used 1hd or 2hd, is there a ruling elsewhere that states the blades can be used to "shield"?

Can someone explain the benefits of Erestor. He's 75pts, but a Capt outfitted w/Hvy Armour and Shield is 80pts has similar stats but has 2pts of Might and higher Courage. Course I could drop them both and take the Twins, but they don't seem to be leadership material what with their Unbreakable Bond rule.

Lastly there is Arwen. My really only choice for a spellcaster in a 500pt list.

Should I take just a Captain and not worry about a named Hero and spell casting?

My list so far is::

Erestor
Captain w/Hvy Armour and Shld
Warrior w/Hvy Armour and E. Blade x10
Warrior w/Hvy Armour and E. Bow and E. Blade x6
Warrior w/Hvy Armour and Spear x 15
492points.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

-Scar :puppy:
Author:  General Elessar [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Only the Elf Twins can use their Elven Blades for shielding.

As for your list, I'd rather take the Twins than a Captain and Erestor. Give you warriors as many bows as possible. Also, your archers automatically come with hand-weapons, so they don't benefit from Elven Blades.
Author:  Elland [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Erestor's survivability is higher than the basic captain. Yes, you're giving up that one might point, but Erestor is cheaper and has throwing weapons with a nasty special rule. I think for what he does, he's dirt cheap, and I'd take him over a captain. Your elves do come with hand weapons, so if you want to add more models, you could drop the elven blades altogether. Definitely do so on the archers as they can't benefit from using them anyway.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Good points so far, you might also consider dropping the heavy armour from your bows (definitely max this count) and maybe from some spears just to squeak in a couple more models. Use wood elves as proxies. And having a few blades is good, especially to escort your hero and do the 2H chopping. Going with one hero in 500 points is okay for high elves as they don't need as much leadership for standfast, etc...not too many other options, since there aren't any real mid-range high elf leaders (Erestor might be a decent "hero", but he isn't a "leader" IMHO, he lacks the might). Over 500 and the Twins become a no-brainer.

I think high elves are long overdue for a profile revamp. The updated Galadhrim offer a much better set of profiles/equipment options, with a good selection of mid-range heroes. High elves could benefit from something similar.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Following the other recommendations is really good. I agree about Erestor. I think a "Leader" should have as much Might as reasonable for the army to allow for Heroic actions. I really WANT to like Erestor but I find he's a supporting Hero in my eyes ( in SBG ). A generic Captain will probably serve you better and free up points.

You may want to try a few games with a Captain and Arwen though. Her magic is limited but one or two well timed Natures Wrath spells can really turn a battle, especially at 500pts. And if you keep her teamed up with at least two Elf warriors or have some spear support around her then she can still perform reasonably during combat as well.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
1) Definately do not take spear and elven blade at the same time... waste of points
2) Definately dont take bow and elven blade.
3) Stormcaller is better than Arwen if you want magic
4) Erestor is a supporting hero who doesnt die.
5) heavy armour makes you alot less likely to die. for the price of 1 elf you get 4 elves who die on 6's to bow fire and 5's in combat rather than 5's to bows and 4's in combat

A possible idea for you
First line just take heavy armour and shields
Then second line a mixture of
heavy armour, bow and spear
heavy armour and spear

e.g. (this is rough estimated points, not sure its exactly 500)
erestor, (or swap for arwen/stormcaller)
captain with armour n shield, (or swap for arwen/stormcaller)
12 h.armour shield
10 h.armour shield and spear
11 h.armour bow and spear
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone, and thank you for all the ideas.

***First line just take heavy armour and shields
Then second line a mixture of
heavy armour, bow and spear
heavy armour and spear

e.g. (this is rough estimated points, not sure its exactly 500)
erestor, (or swap for arwen/stormcaller)
captain with armour n shield, (or swap for arwen/stormcaller)
12 h.armour shield
10 h.armour shield and spear
11 h.armour bow and spear***

So, the 12 shielders are nothing but blockers and simply "shielding" when attacked or are they using their hand weapon in fights? Very interesting. I see them forming a crescent shaped line and moving forward....very tight formation. Doesn't allow for much give though, or am I wrong? A successful flank attack could roll them up. I do like it though. Very inventive.

Also, I am going to go with a generic captain and if I can swing the points Arwen. I like the stormcaller, but he looks to much like the newer elves. I am toying with the idea of converting a standard warrior with an elven blade into a Stormcaller just need to find the time to do it.
...I should make a WIP to motivate me to complete all my back log....*sigh*
Author:  cereal_theif [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
S = shield
P = spear shield
B = bow spear

SSPSSPSSPSS
PPBBBBBBPP

Something roughly like that.
So there is spear support in many directions.
Yes it is possible you may get out flanked but if you are smart you use a table edge or scenary piece on one side to stop it and a hero towards the other side.

You are right with the crescent walking foward and shooting.
BUT you can spear into smaller blocks each with less than a base width between to cover more ground.
2 elf attacks is worth alot.
If you aim your bows at their spears then it becomes deadly as by the time they get to you it doesnt matter if its 2 of theirs vs 1 of yours because they ahve no spears adn you do so its really 2 vs 2 with your 2 being higher fight.

If they look like they will over lap, spread out a bit and shield unless you have a spear support.
Author:  hithero [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
A few definate don't take elven blades and bow combo, ignore that, you can use en EB 2-handed when bow armed and they come in very useful as a reserve to take on Ringwraiths or D6 models. At 500pts you won't ned more than 1 Elf hero as the standard elf is more than capable of holding his own against generic evil captains and allows you to take more models and more bows. By the time the lines close you will find that you may well outnumber the enemy making your EB's even more deadly. I took elf armies at 500 & 600pts to the UKGT's and they were never beaten, so I'm talking from experience and not statline analysys.

I wouldn't take Arwen as she is a one-hit wonder, if her spell fails to go off , then she is next to useless.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Aye, I would say 1 hero is enough but he was looking pretty set on having 2.
Elven blades are fine but he was already planning to take 10 of them + 6 with bows... 16pts could have nearly 2 more elves
I personally don't rate them vs having more shields or spears but that might be my appauling "ability to roll well when shooting therefore always being out numbered in combat" showing through.
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Being my 1st time handling elves, I am very grateful for all the feedback.

I have taken a mixture of everyone's suggestions. Going to field shields w/spears, max bows (w/o e.blades), a handful of e.blades and a capt. w/bow. This will give me 10 bows, 5 e.blades to pull guard duty on the capt. and a double line of attacks (spears backed by spears). Facing dwarves and can use the extra 1-2 punch and defense that the shields will bring to bear and I am hoping the missile fire will thin out their lines before we meet.

Look forward to sharing my results with them to you all later tonight.

-Scar :puppy:
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Contest of Champions:
I rolled badly with my archers, took out a grand total of 4 dwarves in 6rounds. Yeah...that bad. I held his right flank off for a long time with spear/shields. Even my capt failed to perform (again bad rolling on my part). Long story - short: He won, his capt killed 4 of my guys while mine killed....1, yep...one...*sigh* and that was with his bow (one point I had his capt. surrounded/trapped by 2 spears, a e.blade and my capt. and ...LOST... the fight). I lost majority of the fights, but due to my elven defense we bounced off each other a lot.

BUT it was fun :)
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Ah nasty, thats the thing about dwarves, they are so difficult to kill! Whenever i make an army i tend to ally the leader in from another army, i dunno why but i find it helps alot since my opponent is having to apply different tactics to kill my leader.
Author:  Elland [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG: 500pt Elven List and Questions on Elves...
Don't feel bad. I've used Haldir in half a dozen games or so, and all he has done is...well....die. I think I've killed a grand total of 3 models with Haldir. Most of the time he forgets to string an arrow or two when he shoots, or he's afraid to hurt the bad guy and strings a nerf arrow. In other words he misses or fails to wound.

Galadriel on the other hand...in war form...she is a force to be reconed with!
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