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A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21534		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  FireKnife [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Well here is the thing, i am after checking if these are legal lists and if there is anything i have really missed out when buildings these lists.

First my Evil list, it is broken into the different groups that are allied to make 500 points,

Moria (95 points):
Moria Goblin Captain with Shield: 40
3 Moria Goblins with Shield: 15
4 Moria Goblins with Spear: 20
4 Moria Goblins with Orc Bow: 20

Dol Guldur (117 points):
Orc Captain with Shield: 45
4 Orc Warriors with Shield: 24
6 Orc Warriors with Spear: 36
2 Orc Warriors with Orc Bow: 12

Isengard Raiders (287 points):
Uruk-Hai Captain with Shield: 55
4 Uruk-Hai Scouts with Orc Bow: 36
10 Uruk Hai Scouts with Shield: 90
8 Uruk-Hai Scouts: 64
Uruk Hai Scout with Banner: 38

Total 499 Points, 6 Might, 49 Warriors, 10 Bows.

Second the Good Force, again broken into groups:

Fellowship (190 points):
Aragorn with Elven Cloak and Armour.

Rohan (137 points):
Rohan Captain with Heavy Armour, Shield and Throwing Weapon
11 Men of Rohan with 7 Hand Weapons / Shields and 4 Bows

Gondor (170 points):
King Of Men with Heavy Armour and Shield
12 Men of Minas Tirith with 4 Shield, 4 Shield and Spear and 4 Bow

Total 497 points, 7 Might (with one free for Aragorn), 26 Warriors, 8 Bows.

Well these are my lists and what i want to know is firstly is that all legal and secondly is there anything i have missed out with these lists? I only have The Fellowship as extra models to swap in and out at the moment. As for these lists they were made from Legions of Middle Earth, just making sure i made my first two lists correctly.

Thanks in advance.

'FireKnife'
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Both lists are legal according to LoMe, if you only have the fellowship to swap in and out you need to get another box of warriors for each team because your spending too many points on allying in captains. I know you didn't want any help with your lists so i'll keep it short: Aragorn should be swapped for legolas and/or gimli. Dol guldor should be led by the spider queen or a castellan.
Author:  Elland [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
The Moria list is short 1 warrior to allow the 4 bows. Everything else looks good!
Author:  FireKnife [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Thanks guys,

The Moria list is right, it totals 12 models (11 warriors and a Hero) so 4 bows is ok, unless Heroes don't count towards that limit and it has to be 1/3 of the total Warriors not Heroes.

As for swapping out Legolas and Gimli for Aragorn i may try that, unfortunatley i only have a spare few models for the Evil side in terms of Uruk Hai with Shields and a few more Scouts.

Also as a final point when it comes to Allies do they all have to be able to Ally to each other or can i chain them. For example could i combine the White Hand Legions, Isengard Raiders and Moria together as they can ally in a chain (White Hand - Raiders - Moria) but the White Hand can't directly ally to the Moria list. Is that ok or must everyone ally to everyone, not in a chain?

'FireKnife'
Author:  Elland [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
It has to be warriors. Heroes do not count, so the list is illegal.

To answer your ?, yes - they all have to be able to ally together, you can't do as you suggest.
Author:  FireKnife [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Right, fair enough. Will now have to scour for a single Moria Goblin without a bow. Though as i read the rules in LoME it states that this is for Warriors, does that mean that Heroes can have as many bows as they like and are not subject to the rule? If so then i can always make the Captain take a bow and then it will be 3 out of 11 Warriors which would be legal?

As for the allying i understand but it doesn't actually say that you can't combine in a chain or not in the Ally rules, only that you have no limit on the number you can use and that they only mention a single two army alliance. I get it but it would help if the rules had a little bit in them for moments like this. Either that or there is an update i am missing.

'FireKnife'
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
FireKnife wrote:
...does that mean that Heroes can have as many bows as they like and are not subject to the rule?


That's correct.

Quote:
As for the allying i understand but it doesn't actually say that you can't combine in a chain or not in the Ally rules, only that you have no limit on the number you can use and that they only mention a single two army alliance. I get it but it would help if the rules had a little bit in them for moments like this. Either that or there is an update i am missing.


No update, but it's pretty clear. If you could chain alliances, there would almost be no point in having "can ally with" lists. It would let you violate all kinds of thematic and power limits that they expressly say they are trying to avoid.
Author:  FireKnife [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Thanks, now time to have a little conversion time with the Goblin archer. As for the Good Force looking at dropping the Rohirrim and adding a few extra Minas Tirith when i have time, do a sort of Fellowship with the Tower of Echthelion list. Either that or change the Rohirrim archers to Outriders so that my Good list doesn't have an issue with the bow limit.

To be honest though it isn't that clear as there is no rule to say yes it is ok or no it isn't which is the first thing that people will pick up on and then exploit. I wouldn't exploit this as i honestly didn't know hence the question. As for the Alliances some of them don't make much sense like how Moria can ally with any army that spends its time above ground as they are a dwellers race or how you can feature Samwise the Brave during any point of the Fellowships Jounrey. But hey that was the decision of the guys at GW so will stick with it.

'FireKnife'
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Interesting point about using samwise the brave, but it makes sense in gaming terms, there are lots of occasions when standard sam simply isn't tough enough...
Author:  FireKnife [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Well i have decided that my Evil list could do with a change, however it relies on my opponent finding little issue with me using Moria Goblins as Orc Warriors in a Legion of the White Hand list, suppose that in the caves beneath Isengard a race of lighter, more agile Orcs would make sense, plus they have near enough the same stat line and equipment of each other. I never plan to take it to tournament (i am in it for the casual games and the fun, not to win) so i can't see it being an issue too much.

As for Sam i suppose in occasions such as Balin's Tomb or during the Return of the King Samwise the Brave is possibly a little more appropriate but to be honest i don't plan to use any of the Hobbits unless i am doing a Fellowship journey game as i don't think they are worth there points outside of Shire games.

'FireKnife'
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Depends if your playing good on good and bad vs bad, hobbits are of use against "area of effect" spells, which can only be employed by good models, for that reason including pippin or merry alongside your standard list could prove helpful in undoing natures wrath spells or wrath of bruinen. But besides that, your right, the hobbits are useless when not used alongside the rest of the shire.
Author:  FireKnife [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Yeah, well i have just managed to put up a more non-Allied list for my Evil force:

Legion of the White Hand:
Uruk-Hai Captain with Heavy Armour and Shield: 60
Uruk-Hai Captain with Heavy Armour and Shield: 60
4 Uruk-Hai Scouts with Orc Bow: 36
12 Uruk Hai with Shield: 120
10 Uruk-Hai: 90
8 Orc Warriors with Shield: 48
8 Orc Warriors with Spear: 48
6 Orc Warriors with Orc Bow: 36

Total 498 Points, 4 Might, 50 Warriors, 10 Bows.

This is as it stands for the moment, can't see anything wrong with it, aside from the possible lack of Warg Riders. Oh and '10 Uruk-Hai' means just 10 Uruk-Hai with no pike, shield or crossbow, however they are not Scouts as that would take me below the limit by nearly 10 points and as you can see i am right at the 50 model limit.

'FireKnife'
Author:  Elland [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Only suggestion (still trying to wake up) is to swap out the 10 Uruk-hai for 10 Uruk-hai scouts with shields. This way, they are the same defense as the Uruk warriors, but have the ability to "Shield" in combat giving them a little more survivability. You're not giving anything up at all by swapping them and you are gaining the ability to shield.
Author:  draked [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
FireKnife wrote:
As for the Alliances some of them don't make much sense like how Moria can ally with any army that spends its time above ground as they are a dwellers race or how you can feature Samwise the Brave during any point of the Fellowships Jounrey. But hey that was the decision of the guys at GW so will stick with it.

'FireKnife'


Moria can probably ally with them because they accompanied them in the chasing down of the fellowship and helped take merry and pippin.
Author:  FireKnife [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A legal and effective Good and Evil force?
Well i think i will try an ally list with the Raiders for the Wargs and Heroes as really i won't bother with the Siege kit much, though a Shaman and some Ferals / Berzerkers wouldn't go a miss.

Also in regard to the Scouts with shields i will have to find some shields to fit my normal Uruk Hai as i don't have any spare Scout models, can't see the point in spending £20.50 just for all of 8 models (wont use the rest really).

'FireKnife'
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