The One Ring
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Is this balanced?
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22680		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Is this balanced?
Hosting a game with some casual gamers (at least, they own no LotR stuff and are only passingly familiar with the rules). It will be the Seize the Plunder scenario from Chris Guard of Mardat: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22483 (a most excellent scenario). This requires speed, but for maximum points pushing through to the other side is much more rewarding if you have the strength.

I want a quick lively contest, and it's been requested to have no magic (because they don't know how to use it). It's also been requested to have only painted figures (friend is bringing his girlfriend, wants to impress...), so I'm kind of limited and it ends up being a bit of a demo game, not an optimized contest. What I've come up with is somewhat balanced in forces at least in points (Good has a bit more), and a bit of a hodgepodge (because of the painted-only restriction), and some slight rule-bending (a couple extra bows on the Evil side, a heroic solo Ent-that's-not-Treebeard on the Good side).

Even number of shots, Good has more cavalry (meaning quick grabs are possible), Evil starts with 2 banners (important for victory points) and 25% more numbers (the strength to get more rewarding opposite-edge scores), Good has the Twins...

Evil: 52 models, 12 Might, 15 shots
WB1: Vrasku (xbow) - 60
3 Uruks (xbow) - 33
8 Uruk Scouts (bow) - 72
1 Feral Uruk hai - 12

WB2: Ugluk - 60
3 Uruks (shield) - 30
6 Uruks (pike) - 60
1 Uruk (banner) - 34
2 Berzerkers - 30

WB3: Sharku (shield) - 60
2 Warg Rider (shield) - 13
2 Warg Rider (shield, throwing spear) - 15
2 Warg Rider (bow) - 13
6 Uruk Scouts (shields) - 54

WB4: Grishnakh - 45
2 Spiders - 40
1 Mordor Troll - 100
6 Orcs (spear) - 36
2 Orcs (shields) - 12
1 Orc (banner) - 30

Good: 40 models, 11 Might, 15 shots
WB1: Erkenbrand (horse) - 75
2 Royal Guard (horse, throwing spears) - 36
2 Sons of Eorl - 44
5 Riders of Rohan - 65
3 Riders of Rohan (throwing spears) - 45

WB2: Wood Elf Captain (elf bow) - 70
1 Sentinel - 25
3 Wood elves (bows) - 27
8 Wood elves (spears, throwing daggers) - 80

WB3: Elladan (heavy armour, bow) - 160
Elrohir (heavy armour, bow)
7 High Elf (spear, shield) - 77
4 High Elf (bow) - 44

WB4: Ent - 120

Thoughts?
Author:  Valamir [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Who is playing which side, and since this is a 'showmanship battle,' which side is supposed to win?

It is not as balanced as I would like, if I had to play it. However, I think that if the more experienced player has the ability to use the 'fear factor' that comes with certain models to a great enough effect, than the experienced player might be able to pull off the evil army. However, it would be a difficult fight, because, quite frankly, the good force has some hard-hitting models.

Something that could be advisable (up to you- take it or leave it) is to abandon courage tests for the armies being broken. First, this would be useful for the evil army due to the fact that they are out-pointed, and with those good heroes the good army is not going anywhere, while second, if your opponent is not used to courage tests, it could save unnecessary time (it tends to be one the rules that I almost always overlook with the players in the area who are less familiar with the game than I).

Otherwise, the advantage is definitely with the good army, with the twins and the Ent being quite capable of overwhelming anything but the troll.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Nobody is "supposed" to win, it's supposed to be balanced. I'm considering replacing Grishnack with the Spider Queen. That would balance the points better. Or that and give that war band 4 spiders instead of 2, and upgrade the Ent to Treebeard.
Author:  Valamir [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
My apologies in suggesting that a side was supposed to win. I'm not entirely sure what I was thinking when I posted that. :oops:

The suggested changes do help to balance things out much more, I think.
Author:  Draugluin [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Good wins, they have the Twins
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Aye, the evil doesn't have anything ridiculously undercosted.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
I suppose I could replace the twins and high elves with Halbarad, a troupe of rangers and 3 RotN. Or will everyone whine about GC now... :)

I could replace some scouts with more uruk warriors. But the only thing other than the spider queen that I have painted on the evil side is a dragon, and I'm not gonna go there...
Author:  Draugluin [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
I'd rather go against the GC than the Twins.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
The Twins are more overpowered, since Grey Company have been resticted, and here they're only allies.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
I'd say the twins are less over powers now... to take them in grey company before meant you could have unlimited rangers n RotN to the pts limit. Now the twins only gets you access to 12 rangers and they still need RotN.

Twins also got their special rule nerfed. No more 4 attacks on the charge while on a horse.

AS a fan of twins in rivendell armies in LOME I have to say I would still go twins over most other heroes still but with more caution in their use.

What is that "ent" doing as WB4? no hero I note
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
cereal_theif wrote:
What is that "ent" doing as WB4? no hero I note


Yes, I made a note of that...a bit of rule-bending.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Ahh so sneaky sneaky as usualy whafrog.
Tbh it isnt a game breaking issue. Infact it makes it more fun. Ents make everything more fun
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Heh, glad I didn't listen and remove the Twins. :) Very successful game. In the hands of all ye masters I can see the anti-Twin argument, but I knew it wouldn't matter with these folks.

Good did win, but not because of the Twins. In a game like Seize the Plunder there is much more to it than wading through the enemy...you have to lock down the treasure after all. And in all the new scenarios, there is a lot of strategy (and luck) around initial deployment. The Twins did contribute to the style and presentation though, so that was worth it.

I did give the Evil side 4 spiders instead of 2, which swung the points in favour of Evil. In the end it was wasted: Evil didn't help their side when they decided, for a laugh, to unleash Vrasku's archery war band on the Ent...while it was being attacked by 3 spiders. Two spiders were killed by archery, the Ent wounded only once by Vrasku himself (it then proceeded to stomp on the remaining spider). I think in the first few turns of combat, Evil killed as many of their own models with their own archery as Good did in the fights, and freed up Good to take tactical advantage of the holes.

Anyway, thanks for all your advices. If I set up a more competitive game I'd replace Grishnakh with the Spider Queen, and throw in Ghan-buri-ghan as a real hero to lead the Ent, or just upgrade the Ent to Treebeard.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
Oh, so Good didn't win. That was almost surprising. Sounds like twas a good a game.
Author:  Telchar [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
whafrog wrote:
Good did win


Good did win.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
I am good at misreading something.

The point that the Twins didn't unbalance the game still stands.
Author:  Valamir [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this balanced?
I'm glad that it was a well-balanced game. Well done, whafrog!
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