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| Gondor http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=28050 |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gondor |
Bormir, COTWT: 5 WOMT 5 Guard OTFC Cirion 5 WOMT 5 Guard OTFC Beregond: 5 WOMT shield 5 WOMT spear Damrod: 12 rangers of gondor Then I have more points I dont know what to do. What would you guys change? Honestly basically, I hate Gondors stats compared to the movie. I dont like their troops. I think they are not special at anything, and just average at everything which yes can be a strength, but I dont respect playing with them. I need to know what people like to do with these armies. I understand you can ally in some people but Id prefer to see straight Gondor to see their strengths and weaknesses. |
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| Author: | -Bolg- [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
all the fountain guards should have shields and gondor warriors with spear to support them. Merry is the ROHAN hobbit Pippin is GONDOR, and they ar both Indiependen heroes so they can't lead I should take borromir on horse with shield and lance with some Knights to support him. So: borromir and Knights more heroes with fountain guards with shield and supported by other warriors with spear. (or better: more fountain guards) |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
I agree Knights are a good option. I do want to add I appreciate that you didn't spam FG or CG. All the Guards and elites are always the best but it's unthematic and detracts from the game experience. I wish there was some kind of force-organization to prevent that |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
-Bolg- wrote: all the fountain guards should have shields and gondor warriors with spear to support them. Merry is the ROHAN hobbit Pippin is GONDOR, and they ar both Indiependen heroes so they can't lead I should take borromir on horse with shield and lance with some Knights to support him. So: borromir and Knights more heroes with fountain guards with shield and supported by other warriors with spear. (or better: more fountain guards) I didnt know they were independent. Thats makes them so worthless jesus. |
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| Author: | VandalCabbage [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Honestly basically, I hate Gondor. I dont like their troops. I think they are not special at anything, and just average at everything which yes can be a strength, but I dont respect playing with them. I need to know what people like to do with these armies. I understand you can ally in some people but Id prefer to see straight Gondor to see their strengths and weaknesses. Is this going to be like the high elf thread? Where the original post was like: "High Elves suck" and everyone else disputed that? Anyway, Gondor do have distinct strengths and weaknesses: They are a bit like faster, weaker dwarves. Their elites are all about adding F4 into their spearblocks and their regular troops are cheap and hardy; constant D6 is their best asset. Their main weakness is a lack of S4 units. Their heroes make up for this lack of striking power however; Beregond and Damrod are basically almost free warband slots and Denethor's not too far behind either. Their archery is reasonable, but won't win games by itself. I've never played too much with their cav to be honest, but they look cheap, defensive but low fight, which basically characterises Gondor. |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
Their cavalry add the needed punch as they have lances |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Honestly basically, I hate Gondor. I dont like their troops. I think they are not special at anything, and just average at everything which yes can be a strength, but I dont respect playing with them. I need to know what people like to do with these armies. Why are you playing it then? It's not like back in the days of Fellowship where you played either Goblins with a smattering of Uruk-hai or Elves with a handful of Men. There are tons of factions now, why not play one you actually enjoy?! Anyway, for 750 points I'd go with this: Warband 1 310pts Bormir, Captain of the White Tower on horseback with lance 6 Knight of Minas Tirith with shield 4 Warriors of Minas Tirith wirh spear and shield Warband 2 189pts Faramir with armour 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield 6 Guards of the Fountain Court with shield Warband 3 127pts Beregond 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with spear and shield Warband 4 123pts Damrod 5 Rangers of Gondor 7 Rangers of Gondor with spear 50 models, 11 Might. 749 points total. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
VandalCabbage wrote: LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Honestly basically, I hate Gondor. I dont like their troops. I think they are not special at anything, and just average at everything which yes can be a strength, but I dont respect playing with them. I need to know what people like to do with these armies. I understand you can ally in some people but Id prefer to see straight Gondor to see their strengths and weaknesses. Is this going to be like the high elf thread? Where the original post was like: "High Elves suck" and everyone else disputed that? Anyway, Gondor do have distinct strengths and weaknesses: They are a bit like faster, weaker dwarves. Their elites are all about adding F4 into their spearblocks and their regular troops are cheap and hardy; constant D6 is their best asset. Their main weakness is a lack of S4 units. Their heroes make up for this lack of striking power however; Beregond and Damrod are basically almost free warband slots and Denethor's not too far behind either. Their archery is reasonable, but won't win games by itself. I've never played too much with their cav to be honest, but they look cheap, defensive but low fight, which basically characterises Gondor. First of all, Ill never understand why people in this hobby tend to take things so personally when it comes to forces to the point that they'd bring up and misquote something someone said long ago because he still has an issue with it....but I digress..... the topic was 'why would anyone use high elves' and it wasnt a gesture to start an argument it was a devils advocate type of thing to express how I feel they are underpowered for what they should be. In fact, I made it because I own Elrond, Gil Galad, Erestor, Arwen, Glorifindel, jesus almost every high elf hero including Gildor till I sold him. And furthermore I have and will convert high elf foot troops. Ill never take them as a whole army, but will ally them with Mirkwood. Now maybe you'll be happier with my posting because I explained exactly what my goal was. Anyway, no this topic is like that....and again: I own all the models I just listed....for a reason. I like these armies obviously Gondor are the heros in film 3 and I love Boromirs character, profile, and model. I want to make them work, and Im asking how. I should say I like these forces, I hate them stat wise and believe they arent what they could be. Lord Hurin wrote: LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Honestly basically, I hate Gondor. I dont like their troops. I think they are not special at anything, and just average at everything which yes can be a strength, but I dont respect playing with them. I need to know what people like to do with these armies. Why are you playing it then? It's not like back in the days of Fellowship where you played either Goblins with a smattering of Uruk-hai or Elves with a handful of Men. There are tons of factions now, why not play one you actually enjoy?! Anyway, for 750 points I'd go with this: Warband 1 310pts Bormir, Captain of the White Tower on horseback with lance 6 Knight of Minas Tirith with shield 4 Warriors of Minas Tirith wirh spear and shield Warband 2 189pts Faramir with armour 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield 6 Guards of the Fountain Court with shield Warband 3 127pts Beregond 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with spear and shield Warband 4 123pts Damrod 5 Rangers of Gondor 7 Rangers of Gondor with spear 50 models, 11 Might. 749 points total. First off I think every player should know every force in and out. Second, I apologize. I meant I hate their stats, not them. Thanks for the list. Why Faramir though? I find the others are better for the points. One funny thing is actually my Faramir has a history of failing miserably lol. Hes been smacked every battle but ill try him again. |
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| Author: | VandalCabbage [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
I didn't take things personally; I'm not even really a Gondor player (or a high-elf player for that matter). I was just wondering why you were trying to construct an army for a force you "hated". I apologise for misreading your comment; I couldn't even remember who started the high elf topic, just dwelling on what I thought this topic would turn into. If you feel that Gondor should be different, you might want to try making house profiles? It's relatively easy and rewarding. Some people feel the same way about Gondor profiles being underpowered; that's partly why elites (read, GOTFC) are sometimes so overused, because they really feel like numenorians, with less experienced men of non-numenorian decent (read, WOMT) backing them up in spear blocks. Maybe this will provide more of the feel you want? |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
Yeah it really would. Its kind of upsetting that Gondor, the guys who apparently have been fighting Mordor forever are pretty weak in their basic forms. They are a bit better since they can now piercing strike but still meh. I really wish warriors of Minis Tirith arent outplayed by Uruk Hai who were literally just born from the ground in Isengard. Ya know? I have never played a game with a solid victory |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Its kind of upsetting that Gondor, the guys who apparently have been fighting Mordor forever are pretty weak in their basic forms. You're not alone, I don't like the profiles either. WoMT should have Citadel Guard stats (without Bodyguard), and FC should be S4. Anyway, you can't play Gondor like you would expect from the book, you have to play them more like goblins...that is, make a horde, and use swarm tactics. They have the cheapest heroes, and they cost less than Uruks, so you have to leverage that as best you can. Shieldwall vs shieldwall is suicide, you have to get really skirmishy. Also, seems like a minor point, but when shooting, shoot at their shields. With elves you'd shoot at their pikes, because S3 makes a big difference, but with S2 there is no difference. So any hits you get on shields will be one less shield for your warriors, and at S3, warriors do better against pikes. Two pikes vs WoMT(shield)+CG or FC (spear) is an exactly even fight...Fight scores are the same, and chances of wounding are the same. Getting rid of shields either from a distance or by heroes is one of the tactical priorities. In keeping with horde theme, Boromir is a total waste at 750 points. You can take Faramir + warband for his cost. You can't use Faramir to take on Uruk heroes, keep him focussed on the warriors, and to repeat, especially the shielded ones. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
whafrog wrote: LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Its kind of upsetting that Gondor, the guys who apparently have been fighting Mordor forever are pretty weak in their basic forms. You're not alone, I don't like the profiles either. WoMT should have Citadel Guard stats (without Bodyguard), and FC should be S4. Anyway, you can't play Gondor like you would expect from the book, you have to play them more like goblins...that is, make a horde, and use swarm tactics. They have the cheapest heroes, and they cost less than Uruks, so you have to leverage that as best you can. Shieldwall vs shieldwall is suicide, you have to get really skirmishy. Also, seems like a minor point, but when shooting, shoot at their shields. With elves you'd shoot at their pikes, because S3 makes a big difference, but with S2 there is no difference. So any hits you get on shields will be one less shield for your warriors, and at S3, warriors do better against pikes. Two pikes vs WoMT(shield)+CG or FC (spear) is an exactly even fight...Fight scores are the same, and chances of wounding are the same. Getting rid of shields either from a distance or by heroes is one of the tactical priorities. In keeping with horde theme, Boromir is a total waste at 750 points. You can take Faramir + warband for his cost. You can't use Faramir to take on Uruk heroes, keep him focussed on the warriors, and to repeat, especially the shielded ones. 1-Your first bolded point. Those are the exact thought I was looking for. Thank you. I might have not thought to do it at the get go and learn it later. Furthermore, of course generally I would go for support first. 2- Faramir point-You think at 750 you wont need a big tough hero like that with an army with such low strength? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: 2- Faramir point-You think at 750 you wont need a big tough hero like that with an army with such low strength? This is only MHO, and others may differ, but every army has its strengths and weaknesses, and the main object of the game is to capitalize on your strengths and minimize the effect of your weaknesses. Obvious so far. If you take a horde, your strength is numbers. If you dilute that, you're giving up a strength, and the net effect is a trend to mediocrity. Sometimes it's a fine line between a "balanced" force, and one that sacrifices strengths. In this case I think adding Boromir steals from the strength of a horde, and doesn't add that much. It's questionable whether Boromir can make up for his extra point cost over the course of the game...put Faramir and Boromir on a horse and they aren't much different at least when it comes to minion-chewing, though Boromir will have an easier time handling the opposing heroes. In fact, if you did take Boromir, going after the enemy heroes would probably be your main strategy, and you'd need a different force. You can't have a horde anymore, so you have to find a different configuration with a different strength. This is maybe where Osgiliath vets come in useful, and more focus on elites. A force led by Boromir has to be tough enough to stand its ground while Boromir runs around killing heroes first before laying waste to the rest. This makes for a completely different game from one where you have a horde fracturing the enemy formations (drawing off support, trapping where possible) while your mid-level heroes run around killing minions first before finally concentrating on the heroes. To sum up my rambling, if you mix and match between these, or other, approaches you won't get the benefits of any. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: whafrog wrote: 1-Your first bolded point. Those are the exact thought I was looking for. Thank you. I might have not thought to do it at the get go and learn it later. Furthermore, of course generally I would go for support first. If they were orc spears, then you would, of course  And if they were Morannons with shields, you'd still go for support, because denying support is a huge game changer.
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
Yeah. I understand your thought pattern. As much as I used to be good at wargaming I fail to think(faramir taking minions and boromir going for heros) about that never having learned my full potential in this game. Good tips man. Thank you. Off note-where are you from in Canada? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
Winnipeg, the "Windy City of the North"
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gondor |
You took Dustin Byfuglien Andrew Ladd and Michael Frolik from us. Give them back. Lol. |
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