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Musings on all-mounted Harad
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Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Musings on all-mounted Harad
Thinking of some 700pts lists, was wondering if anybody actually build and used a similar army, perhaps had some success with it too?

Currently wondering whether to simply use something like:

Suladân, horse, bow
6 Serpent Riders
6 Haradrim Raiders, war spear, bow

Haradrim King, horse, war spear
4 Serpent Riders
8 Haradrim Raiders, war spear

Haradrim chieftain, horse, bow
12 Haradrim Raiders, wear spear, bow
------------------------------------------------
For 39 mounted models, 20 bows and 7 Might

or for example:

Suladân, horse
8 Serpent Riders

Haradrim King, horse, war spear
8 Haradrim Raiders, war spear

Haradrim Chieftain, horse, bow
8 Haradrim Raiders, war spear, bow

Haradrim Chieftain, horse, bow
5 Haradrim Raiders, war spear, bow
3 Haradrim Raiders, bow
------------------------------------------------
For 36 mounted models (-3), 18 bows (-2) and 9 Might (+2)

More might is obviously useful, but this list does lose some equipment (bow on Suladân, 3 war spears on mounted archers) as well as quality (8 instead of 10 Serpent Riders), in addition to some models and their corresponding bows. Then again, plenty of bow shots to go around and there are only so many models you can fit in base contact anyway, whereas the two additional Might is pretty essential for cavalry.
Not looking to buy more Serpent Riders than the 10 I already have by the way, regardless of their benefits at only 1 extra point!
Author:  JamesR [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
I haven't yet gotten to use this list but I've been building to field one. I believe it would be highly effective
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
I hope it works. I have 8 mtd serpent riders 41 yes 41 raiders suladan a Mahmud king and probably 4 Mahmud raiders.

Problem is the best troops of that lot the serpents I am missing on foot counterparts for....sucks. but regardless I'll make on. I do need more captains though. Or some mounted hero.

I'm guess they would be like the knights of rivendell with less effective bows but more models.
Author:  Knife in the Dark [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
I think if could be effective if you plan it correctly. Being all mounted it will be hard to get them all into combat.

Also with Harad's low defense, you need to be winning combat when you run into combat, so getting all the models in combat and wounding is crucial. If you lose you have a high chance of dying.

In regards to which list I'm having a hard time thinking which I like better, the extra models and equipment will make it easier to wound. Although the extra might will help to call all the heroic moves that you will need to get into combat.

Which one do you like better? That might be the list you feel better with.

Looks very cool from a themed, and would look cool to see all those mounted models on the table top.
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
A nicely themed and good looking army is the first priority - otherwise I wouldn't try something along these lines! Added advantage is that it fits nicely in blue-on-blue games, as I can easily imagine a 'neutral' Harad tribe, equally likely to fight Gondor but also orcs (whereas I don't fancy my Hobbits fighting Elves for example).

JamesR wrote:
I haven't yet gotten to use this list but I've been building to field one. I believe it would be highly effective
What's the list you're looking to field?

LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
I hope it works. I have 8 mtd serpent riders 41 yes 41 raiders suladan a Mahmud king and probably 4 Mahmud raiders.
Got something quite similar actually, Suladân as only actual hero model, and two converted ones (king and chieftain) so far, 10 Serpents and a whole pile of Raiders - started collecting them under the old rules, where I was planning something along the lines of: Suladân, chieftain, 10 Serpents, 20 Raiders with bow, 30 Raiders with lance. Bought pretty much everything I needed back then (good thing too, saved quite some money..) but not sure if I actually have all 50 Raiders - not that I need that many now.

Quote:
Problem is the best troops of that lot the serpents I am missing on foot counterparts for....sucks.
Good news is that even tournaments can't force you to use Serpent Guard as dismounted Serpent Riders: after all they are a different profile (unlike, say, Rohan Royal Guard), so a converted model will do just fine. Will have to make some more of these myself, come to think of it...

Quote:
I'm guess they would be like the knights of rivendell with less effective bows but more models.
Only in as much as Goblins play like Elves.. these guys will outnumber Rivendell 2:1, but lack the heavy armour, Elven bows, and high Fight value.
That's actually what mainly interests me: how will a relatively large group of individually weak horsemen do? Aside from the low cost, their only advantage lies in their lances, which do combine nicely with double strikes etc on the charge of course. With low Fight and Defence, the countercharge is even more painful however - although there are more guys left to fill the gaps. In comparison, my usual Dwarf 700pts list also has three full warbands!

When looking beyond straight up fights, and instead at scenario conditions, it is that such an army does get interesting I think. High manouverability combined with decent numbers make Domination, Hold Ground and Reconnoitre 'feasible' scenarios, while numbers are low enough not to 'automatically lose' in Lords of Battle.

Knife in the Dark wrote:
In regards to which list I'm having a hard time thinking which I like better, the extra models and equipment will make it easier to wound. Although the extra might will help to call all the heroic moves that you will need to get into combat

Which one do you like better? That might be the list you feel better with
Main problem is that my usual other armies (e.g. those I've played at least several games with) are Wood Elves (no cavalry), Moria (never with a Warg Marauder), all-infantry Rohan, Dwarves and Mordor (sometimes with a couple of Warg Riders), so it's safe to say that >5 cavalry is pretty much new to me. :P After my last (and first) game with my slowly developing host of Hobbits however, I'd relish an army that moves 10" instead of 4" per turn!
Author:  Thingol [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
Have you thought about adding one of the named Harad wraiths, instead of Suladan only a few more points but can then add a monster the fellbeast as well as magic?
Author:  JamesR [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
Thingol wrote:
Have you thought about adding one of the named Harad wraiths, instead of Suladan only a few more points but can then add a monster the fellbeast as well as magic?


But that breaks the theme worse than a Mumak does. The goal is an all mounted Harad list. Not monster/magic super list lol
Author:  JamesR [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
Here's what I'm aiming for Coenus, not a "super competitive" but I'm excited to try it
499 points

WB1
Suladan, mounted
5x Serpent Riders
Haradrim Raider (w bow and war spear)

WB2
Mahud King, mounted (w shield, war spear)
4x Mahud Raiders (w War Spears)
2x Haradrim Raiders (w bow and war spear)

WB3
Haradrim Chieftain, mounted (w War Spear)
6x Haradrim Raiders (w bow and war spear)

Model Count: 21
Break point: 11 (Deaths)
Might: 7
Bows: 9/18 50%

Strengths: Lots of bow fire (for a force of this size), Everyone (Save Suladan) has a lance, so good hitting power. Some Strength 4 and Fight 4 mixed in. And finally 5 (including the Mahud King) impaler hits to help soften up the enemies prior to combat.
Author:  ElCanter [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
I also play an all-mounted with many bows, so I suggest you to:
-insert a banner (you can "To the end" whitout fight ;))
-fight only at last moment of the match, your opponent must go crazy :rofl:
-charge (if you have the temptation to charge) only with your models without bow. You must protect your bowmen
-kill models who move as you or faster, like Eorl'son and wing-beast (a really problem to kill).


And have fun! All cavalry is fantastic to see and play
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon May 26, 2014 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
Been thinking about this a bit more lately, now starting with a 500pts list. Original plan was to max out the numbers (two full warbands), but as with the two 700 lists above, I'm moving away from that in favour of a bit more Might instead.

Current plan would be:

Suladân, horse, bow
4 Serpent Riders
5 Haradrim Raiders, bow, war spear

Haradrim Chieftain, horse, war spear
3 Serpent Riders
3 Haradrim Raiders, war spear

Haradrim Chieftain, horse, bow, war spear
6 Haradrim Raiders, bow, war spear
--------------------------------------------------
500pts, 24 models, 13 bows, 7 Might

Got all the troops built at the moment, just need another afternoon to stick a bit of green stuff on two of 'em and modify the chieftains. Almost certainly more useful than the original plan of two full warbands, as not only does this list have 2 more Might, a big warband of cavalry doesn't seem that useful: the outermost models may well be out of range of the heroic move, the turn after charging.
Still enough bows to potentially outshoot opponents, lances everywhere (bar Suladân...) and a decent number of elites. Defintely enough mobility for the scenarios that require that, but numbers are decent enough too.
Now just to get some games in...
Author:  JamesR [ Mon May 26, 2014 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
Looks great. Let us know how it works. I'm still building my mounted forces to be able to run my list
Author:  cereal_theif [ Fri May 30, 2014 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
I played all mounted Harad for a while. Loved it
Biggest bits of advice.
1) Get a banner. You won't with to the death without it. You need your opponent moving
2) Sulladan is a must
3) Serpent riders should be at least 1/3 of the army. F4 is not to be underestimated.
4) bows at 50% gives you a better angle for lords of battle and domination
5) petiton GW to get the taskmaster a horse lol
Author:  Frêrin [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
What about taking a mounted Ringwraith (unnamed or the Betrayer)? I think big heros, will be the biggest problem for a all mounted Harad army. They can easily win their fights even if charged and kill your riders on a 4+. Heros like Boromir or Dain are able to slay 4 riders in one turn with a heroic combat.
Author:  Isilduhrr [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
if he's got Boromir or Dain then his number will be low - perfect prey for all-cavalry. i'd say ignore big heros at all costs, but if that's not possible (it normally isn't) i'd send the camels up against him. they get their hits regardless of who wins the fight, so hopefully with a bit of luck you can scare your opponent a little, enough to be more wary with his hero.
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Musings on all-mounted Harad
Got my first game in with 'em, using the last 500pts list above (3 warbands, with Suladan, 2 chieftains, 7 Serpents, 11 Raiders w bow/warspear and 3 Raiders w warspear).
Up against Gondor, with Faramir, Forlong (mounted), captain, a few Rangers, 6 Lossarnach (1 banner), 6 Man-at-Arms and a bunch of WoMT.
Force played pretty lovely, first some arrows to soften the enemy (mainly at enemy archers, some failed attempts to dismount Forlong), and although I could've kept running and shooting, just charged in at some point as it simply was more fun. Terrible dice meant that the two not-Suladân led warbands (charging simultaneously from all sides) were decimated by the Fiefdom troops, although F4 and the banner re-roll also helped them. I was much less certain of Suladân's troops (charging Faramir, the captain and a group of warriors), but they fared a lot better. My general lost his horse, but when he charged Faramir the following turn in the company of a Serpent Rider, avenged his faithful steed by providing a F9 Heroic Strike, after which the Rider alone proved enough to kill Faramir outright! [Rolled 3 5s and a 1 on his 4 dice, the latter of which was re-rolled (poison) to become a 6!].
Not just a victory, the amazing flexibility was a great experience too. The archer warband (deployed centrally) could have come to the aid of Suladân's group equally easily as it did to the others, while Suladân could actually have pulled back to throw my entire army at the Fiefdom warband, well before the other infantry could join them. Aside from the inclusion of a banner when definitely playing To the Death, there isn't anything I'd want to change to the force at the moment: Might stock is decent enough (definitely wouldn't want to reduce it), numbers are good (as is the number of shots) and the warband size is nice too (most guys will usually be in range of a Heroic move).
Lovely force, now just to finish converting and painting it (and then expand it to 700).
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