Thror or Thrain?

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:04 pm

Ok, both of these guys are beasts. I only plan on including one in my army because they are both almost 150 pts and I dont like using heros above 100-115 usually.

The difference is for those of you who do not know, is in their special rules. To sum it up:

Thror-Less fate, but has a special rule for not counting fate points if he rolls successfully on 4+. Also, he is fearless, which helps with his stand fast.

Thrain-The big rule I like is his stand fast covers the entire battlefield. Any time you break, everyone sticks around to fight if he rolls at least a 4 on the courage check.

A couple things.....
1-Thror looks a LOT cooler to me.
2-I probably wont use these guys in an official tournament, so the stand fast rule really doesnt mean much because my usual partner and I dont use courage check rules we just have a fight to the death.

So Im heavily leaning on Thror. Id like to hear others thoughts and opinions though on these guys.

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:01 pm

When playing by proper rules

I prefer thrain, more base fate and the army wide standfast is nice. And I think the model is cooler.

Thror is nice but I've never seen him stick around to long, if he was D9 it'd be a different story. Fearless is ok but they both have such high courage, I would hope 9/10 they'd pass a courage test.

To be fair, Thorin is still better than both of them and should be first choice for any Erebor Army.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

Neither of them are great beyond fluff purposes. As it stands they're both far too expensive, like Southy says, compare them to Thorin (who is fairly costed compared to a Free People's Dwarf King) and you'll see that Thrain should be about the same points as a tooled up Thorin (so around 115) and Thror should probably be about 10 points less than that.

Assuming you're OK to pay 25-35 points over the odds for them then Thrain's clearly the better choice due to the guaranteed 3 Fate. They both waste points on a largely useless rule: (Fearless is only so much use on a C6 model and Blood Feud requires the presence of the rarely seen Azog to come into affect) but Thrain's Durin's Heir rule is absolutely brilliant, unless you decide to ignore an incredibly important part of the rules...

Finally, to pick up on that last point, I honestly have no idea why you would play without the courage rules. Even if you're just playing a fight to the death (i.e. not using the scenarios) then breaking the enemy and courage tests are an incredibly exciting, dynamic and important part of the rules. It's also a major contributing factor to the points values of your troops. Goblins are cheap compared to elves in part because their low courage means they'll leg it at the end of the game. If you're not using these rules then I can only assume that you're giving the army with lower courage less points to make up for the fact your removing one of their major disadvantages? The breaking and courage test rules also ensure the end of the game is tense and fun, the idea of just running forward and rolling dice until you manage to kill each and every one of your enemy's models bores me to tears.

DwarfWarrior · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:55 pm

I agree if you were judging on looks alone then thror looks so cool

DwarfWarrior · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:56 pm

I agree if you were judging on looks alone then thror looks so cool

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:25 pm

SouthernDunedain wrote:

When playing by proper rules

I prefer thrain, more base fate and the army wide standfast is nice. And I think the model is cooler.

Thror is nice but I've never seen him stick around to long, if he was D9 it'd be a different story. Fearless is ok but they both have such high courage, I would hope 9/10 they'd pass a courage test.

To be fair, Thorin is still better than both of them and should be first choice for any Erebor Army.

Oh man, my Thorin is already painting and waiting for me to paint his warband lol.....then Dwalin, then someone else. Thats the way Im going. Totally agree.
Thanks for the advice......

Dr Grant wrote:

Neither of them are great beyond fluff purposes. As it stands they're both far too expensive, like Southy says, compare them to Thorin (who is fairly costed compared to a Free People's Dwarf King) and you'll see that Thrain should be about the same points as a tooled up Thorin (so around 115) and Thror should probably be about 10 points less than that.

Assuming you're OK to pay 25-35 points over the odds for them then Thrain's clearly the better choice due to the guaranteed 3 Fate. They both waste points on a largely useless rule: (Fearless is only so much use on a C6 model and Blood Feud requires the presence of the rarely seen Azog to come into affect) but Thrain's Durin's Heir rule is absolutely brilliant, unless you decide to ignore an incredibly important part of the rules...

Finally, to pick up on that last point, I honestly have no idea why you would play without the courage rules. Even if you're just playing a fight to the death (i.e. not using the scenarios) then breaking the enemy and courage tests are an incredibly exciting, dynamic and important part of the rules. It's also a major contributing factor to the points values of your troops. Goblins are cheap compared to elves in part because their low courage means they'll leg it at the end of the game. If you're not using these rules then I can only assume that you're giving the army with lower courage less points to make up for the fact your removing one of their major disadvantages? The breaking and courage test rules also ensure the end of the game is tense and fun, the idea of just running forward and rolling dice until you manage to kill each and every one of your enemy's models bores me to tears.

1-Yeah they are expensive, but I figure, either I can ally in a warband of Laketown with Balin leading the third warband, or I can take one of those guys. I have a Warband of Mithril miniatures guys with spears and a captain who look VERY laketown. Maybe Ill show a pic soon. But yeah theres where Im at.
2-The fight to the death isnt really me....my opponent likes to do it. Hes mostly a warhammer guy and is in lord of the rings for the battle of it all.

I get it...I actually was going to have a points match Hold Ground with him this week till GW screwed us but I couldnt end up doing it. We will though from here on out more than likely.

Idk....I just see the cinematic side of it too.....yeah...the bad guys run....but like in every battle almost, hardly any men book it and take off even when down like 25-1 ratio of soldiers.....

Galanur · **Joined:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am **Posts:** 1389

of the 2, Thror is cool, dunno why they didnt gave him shield on FaQ profile, although me and friends always considered him defence 9 and can shield, hes very sturdy at that and can hold better than thrain.
Thrain is an "enhanced" dwarf king with some sweet rules.

For fun I take thror, but army wise thinking bettewn strategy and all, Thrain fills the spots better, his rules are 2 good to be ignored as part of an erebor army, the bad side is that he almost cost as twice as a regular king...

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:41 pm

Yeah Im feeling the same way. Im also confused about that shielding and D9 stuff......he should be....

I dont get why Thrain is so much more Epic....Thror was THE KING and Thrain went mad....he didnt die in battle...he just pretty much quit.....

Wise Old Elf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:12 pm

LordoftheBrownRing wrote:

Yeah Im feeling the same way. Im also confused about that shielding and D9 stuff......he should be....

I dont get why Thrain is so much more Epic....Thror was THE KING and Thrain went mad....he didnt die in battle...he just pretty much quit.....

Hmm... I wouldn't say Thrain quit, if anything Thror quit when he lost control of his mind and succumbed to the seduction of all the gold he forced his people to mine. If it wasn't for Thror's avarice then Smaug would never have come to the Lonely Mountain, Thorin's people would still be very much alive, and the Dwarven race would have remained one of the most prosperous civilisations in Middle-Earth, potentially even rising above the authority of Elves and Men as far as wealth, estate and populace are concerned.

Thrain's final act was also delivering the Key of Durin to Gandalf, without which the entire quest of the Hobbit could not have been completed, or even thought of. It was a noble and valiant final act which led to Smaug's defeat and the return of Durin's line to Erebor.

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:23 am

Wise Old Elf wrote:

LordoftheBrownRing wrote:

Yeah Im feeling the same way. Im also confused about that shielding and D9 stuff......he should be....

I dont get why Thrain is so much more Epic....Thror was THE KING and Thrain went mad....he didnt die in battle...he just pretty much quit.....

Hmm... I wouldn't say Thrain quit, if anything Thror quit when he lost control of his mind and succumbed to the seduction of all the gold he forced his people to mine. If it wasn't for Thror's avarice then Smaug would never have come to the Lonely Mountain, Thorin's people would still be very much alive, and the Dwarven race would have remained one of the most prosperous civilisations in Middle-Earth, potentially even rising above the authority of Elves and Men as far as wealth, estate and populace are concerned.

Thrain's final act was also delivering the Key of Durin to Gandalf, without which the entire quest of the Hobbit could not have been completed, or even thought of. It was a noble and valiant final act which led to Smaug's defeat and the return of Durin's line to Erebor.

I mean in terms of battle.....not in terms of ruling a Kingdom..... Thror went down dieing in battle to Azog.....Thrain just lost his mind and ran away.....Thats how I see it.

But I COMPLETELY see your point. Thats why he has that rule im sure.

Thanks for the comments though to you, and everyone!

Thror or Thrain?

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