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Anti Smaug
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=30526		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Frêrin [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Anti Smaug
We had a discussion about good (not evil) Anti Smaug armies. Do you have ideas about (themed) armies, that are able to defeat the desolater of the north?

I made up this list:

Isildur on horse with shield
8 Warriors of Numenor with shields
4 Warriors of Numenor with shields and spears

Rumil
12 Woodelves with spears

Haldir with Elfbow
8 Woodelves with bows and spears
4 Woodelves with spears

Galadriel, Lady of Light

I think the one ring, Rumil and Galadriels "blinding light" is a good combination against Smaug, but of course it is not 100%.
Another option I thought about is Gandalf the White, Saruman the Wise +
Hobbits, but this is not really themed ;)
So any other suggestions? Feel free to post your lists!
Author:  Badner [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Hi,

I would love to play with this army, it could be very strong but it totaly depends on the terrian and you have to kill Smaug with the windlance (which makes it very thematic):

-the White Council ---- Warband 1: Gandalf the Grey with Horse; Thranduil, King of the Woodland Realm with Horse
-Thorin's Company ---- Warband 1 Bombur with Pony; Bilbo Baggins with Pony; Sting
-The Army of Laketown ---- Warband 1 Bard the Bowman, Girion's Heir with Armour; Horse; Windlance
-Warband 2 Alfred the councillor

Total: 700 Points
Author:  Khan_gfn [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
To be honest, I don't think you'll be ever able to kill Smaug in combat with this list. Even if you win combat most of the times, 20 wounds combined with the ability that prevents the dragon from being trapped means you won't deal as much damage as you need, and just one combat won by Smaug allows him to barge and kill your team and/or kill Rumil pretty easily.

As for the other options, killing him in combat seems realistic with combination of Beorn's special attack + Alfrid to give him might. Also, Bard with Windlance and a spam of Laketown Militia with bows is a way to do it with some luck.
Author:  Badner [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
The Alfrid Windlance combo is also the plan behind my list. You have Bombur and Gandalf, so Alfrid will get at least one Will point back per round. So Bard will get maybe ten Might points, this will almost auto kill Smaug after two shots (by the way, do I understand this rule in the right way: The first hit with the windlance will cause 10 wounds and the next hit will kill him?).

A list with Beorn and the Windlance would be this:

-Thorin's Company Warband 1: Bilbo Baggins with Pony; Sting; Gandalf the Grey
-Radagast's Alliance Warband 1: Beorn
-The Army of Laketown ---- Warband 1: Bard the Bowman, Girion's Heir with Armour; Horse; Windlance; ---- Warband 2: Alfred the councillor
Author:  Frêrin [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
I don't think the windlance will work, because Smaug will be near good models or in combat to soon and therefore you are not allowed to use the windlance.
Author:  Badner [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
This is why I wrote that it depends on the terrain and the board. Because two phases are enough to kill him. If you are allowed to deploy at the end of the board and he has to do the same, then you can kill him. Of course, this list does not work when Smaug can attack you in the first turn. However, if you can hit him in the first turn, he looses ten wounds. If he can't charge you in the second turn, than he is almost dead. In turn one try to give Bard three might points with Alfrid and use Gandalf and Bombur to give Alfrid all his will points back so he can do the same thing u
in turn two. In turn two, you use the black arrow, because it auto hits, so you are allowed to shoot on Smaug if he is near to the Windlance. If you use all of Bards might, than you can kill Smaug in turn two.

However, if you split up the might from Alfrid on Beorn and Bard, than might even have a chance to let Smaug loose his last ten wounds in the combat because you only have to role one six to win the combat when Bilbo with his ring attacked Smaug too.
Author:  Sikano [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
A full army of hobbits throwing rocks (which actually wont work because it doesnt even hit on the wound chart)

But seriously. I think Aragorn with his sword and some fountain court of some sort for the body guard special rule would be good.
Author:  Grungehog [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
treebeard 4 ents alfred, make sure they all stand 3" away from one another, 1 shoot phase shoot kill smaug on a 6 followed by a 4 to wound. bring enough 2h weapons with warriors and Smaug doesn't last long, even a normal dwarf army with the help of gwahir is usually enough to kill him, I've already done 3 battles and 3 play test battles, Smaug is FAR from unbeatable
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Witchking W/ Crown, Full M/10 W/ 3F, Fellbeast, Morgul Blade
Shadowlord w/ fellbeast
Undying w/ fellbeast
Dwimmerlaik w/ fellbeast

Sap his will, transfix him, charge in with everyone and burn all of the Witch kings might to score a wound with the morgul blade.

Edit: This list also has the power to beat most other tournament armies unlike most theoretical smaug counters.
Author:  Badner [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
This list looks very good and you are right, it is competitive against other armys. Can you please explain me why you took these wraiths? Especially, why didn't you take the Knight of Umbar? In combination with the Dwimmerlaik, he would be amazing. Because he and Smaug would have the same Fight value and Smaug can only do one heroic strike.

I only posted my list because he asked for a thematic army and I think that the only way to do this is a BOFA army with Bard, because he is the one who killed Smaug.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Witchking - Most Might, Most attacks, morgul blade
Shadowlord - Should help negate the fire breathing from Smaug
Undying - Best wraith for magic casting, lots of will so can through 4/5 dice at one spell to guarantee a 6.
Dwimmerlaik - Potential to halve Smaug's Might and Will.

I didn't take the KoU as the wraiths will already have a higher FV when Smaug is transfixed.

Ah yes, I see he asked for good armies.

Well according to Simon G, the list that worked best in play testing V Smaug was:
Gil-Galad Mtd
Glorfindel Mtd
Elrond Mtd
Twins Mtd

Basically all the high elf lords on a horse.
Author:  Badner [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
This list looks good but wouldn't Thranduil be very good as well?

Is there any battle report which includes Smaug?
Has anyone of you played with the Windlance against Smaug? How did it perform?
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Grungehog wrote:
treebeard 4 ents alfred

Besides not being themed, the problem with ents is they have the same range as Smaug, but Smaug is allowed to move 6" and shoot while ents have to stand still, so it would be difficult to beat him. Furthermore, if you don't have Ini and move closer than 18" he can move his 6" breath fire and in the next turn attack you.
SouthernDunedain wrote:
Gil-Galad Mtd
Glorfindel Mtd
Elrond Mtd
Twins Mtd

Besides not being themed, I'd really like to hear how Simon played it. Because if Smaug has the 4-6 for deployment I can't imagine Gil-Galad getting int combat alive (first breath fire hit -> horse dead second hit -> Gil-Galad dead). Because of his higher movement, Smaug should be able to transfix (propable Elladan or Elrohir) one of the heros and attack him, if he doesn't have the Ini this will lead to dead hero or dead horses. And after this Smaug has 3 might to heroic strike and if he wins all the horses are gone and you have to call heroic moves to prevent him from flying away. Or did I miss something?
Author:  Badner [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
hi,

I just found this battle report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm-xbGRQdrI

The Anti Smaug army is not that good in my opinion, but maybe you are interested in a battle report with Smaug.
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Know it, but the guys aren't really play tactically and they may should reread the rules ;)
Author:  Badner [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Yes, I did notice this, however, maybe somebody is interested in it.

I think we have to wait until the GBHL or DCHL will make a battle report.
Author:  Grungehog [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
treebeard and 4 ents isn't themed?
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Grungehog wrote:
treebeard and 4 ents isn't themed?

Together with Alfred? Yeah not exactly themed ;)
Author:  Grungehog [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
do have a better use of 30pts? woses perhaps?
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti Smaug
Maybe take Saruman the White instead of one Ent. This would be themed ;)
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