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800 Isenguard http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31109	Page 1 of 1

Author:	BerserkerSmash [ Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	800 Isenguard
Hi all, new to the game and need some opinions on this 800 point isenguard list. Ugluck 8x Berserkers 4x Uruks with Crossbow and pike Uruk captain with Heavy armour and shield 7x Berserkers 4x Uruks with Crossbow and pike Vrasku 8x Uruks with Shield 4x Uruks with Crossbow and Pike Dark Marshal on Fellbeast Would this stand up well in a variety of missions . I like the Dark marshal for his F6, 2M, good casting abilities and a banner for the troops but 12W seems like it wouldn't last long. Am i better off with khumal who will stick around longer?

Author:	General Ly Average [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
At 800 I would definitely think about adding Saruman and Grima, Saruman is a great support character and Grima is just the ultimate in trolling, stalk your opponents heroes and watch them cry and rage at him as they spend all their might unnecessarily. I personally wouldn't include the Dark Marshal, but if I was going to I wouldn't put him on a fellbeast, just use him on foot/horse behind your lines and use him as a troop buffer and throw some transfixes around when a big hero gets near. Of course if you like the model or really want to include him then that takes priority, use what you'll enjoy using. As for the Khamul vs Marshal point, they have very different roles as Khamul is far more combat-orientated but worse at magic whereas the DM is a support wraith with decent magic. I think that he DM would be more useful here, as your uruk heroes already have some decent killing power. I don't think arming the crossbowmen with pikes is a good idea as you'll either have to advance to support your front rank of Beserkers/uruk warriors and lose your shots or stay still to shoot and not move your front rank/advance without support, both of which are not making full use of either the pike or the crossbow option. You could always take some orc warriors with spears as cheap supports.

Author:	Isilduhrr [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
You can't arm Uruk Hai with both pikes and crossbows - it's one or the other. A Shaman would be more valuable than Ugluk in my opinion.

Author:	generalripphook [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
Personally I think berserkers are over costed for what you get, I might drop them, keep a warband of all crossbowmen and then have warbands of half pikes and half sword and shield

Author:	Isilduhrr [ Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
Berserkers are very worth their points, I think they are 4 points undercosted actually, but in terms of playability they are very powerful. The games I've used them in, they always scare my opponent into running complicated strategies to try and deal with them, as such they disrupt his plan and favour me. When supported by two pikes, a banner and a Shaman in a shiledwall they are nigh unstoppable, and the Courage is something that is always underrated until you need it.

Author:	Tungdil [ Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
Isilduhrr wrote: You can't arm Uruk Hai with both pikes and crossbows - it's one or the other. A Shaman would be more valuable than Ugluk in my opinion. Sorry, that is not true. There is no mention of this in any rules or FAQs. This has actually been included in the GBHL Community FAQ, after a heated discussion here on the forums. "Can you carry a pike and a crossbow? There is no restriction on what other weapon a model with a pike can be armed with apart from that they are not allowed Shields." I agree with including Saruman, and then naturally Grima. They are almost an "auto-pick" in games above 750, depending on what you think/know your opposition is fielding. Dark Marshall might also not be the best choice a wraith on a Fell Beast, as he does not really need it. Other wraiths can get much more out of being placed on a Fell Beast, and I recommend that you read the following article, to get some good tips on what wraiths works best the Fell Beasts: http://www.thelastalliance.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1026 Then it would be up to what you would like from your wraith.. Combat focus, against troops (Khamul) or against heroes (Knight of Umbar)? Magic focus (The Unduying)? etc etc Furthermore, it really depends on the scenario, if you are able to successfully use your crossbows, in the way I imagine you intend to use them and the rest of your army. Objective or movement based scenarios will probably not suit the army.. You should really consider bringing in some Orcs as cheap spear support behind your main line, which should be mixed with Uruk Shields and Berserkers. They will add extra dice needed to win the fights, while keeping your numbers high, which probably is needed. Do you have Saruman, and are you able to incorporate him into your list, will still keeping a medium number of troops?

Author:	Salattu [ Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
Combining crossbows and pikes is not most safe solution, since crossbows need to stand still if thye wish to shoot. They won't stay in speed of other troops, worse case they cant position well and own troops are in the way and so on. So i would say separate crossbows and pikes. Also fellbeast feels a bit odd by themic. Nazguls probably had some kind connection to raiding parties of grishnakh... But isengard was kind of enemy, uruk-hai emphasized they serve saruman not snagas of sauron. So i would say saruman would fit themic much better with same points! Also note that as alrdy said berserkers carry 2-handed and they cannot be supported by pikes. I guess... Edit: In case you want fellbeast... I would probably take... Shadowlord. Counters archer enemies effectively, helps unshielded berserkers. Dwimmerlake is cool too, if u think u will face rly strong enemy heroes. Khamul i find weak, he doesn't give any ability to whole army, and he needs to cause 8 wound to be same will as undying... He spells worst of all nazgul.

Author:	General Ly Average [ Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
Old Rules again, Salattu There's nothing in the Hobbit Rulebook that says two-handed weapon-wielding models can't be supported by spears and pikes, and you can also choose whether to go 2-handed or not (hint: don't). That's why you often see warbands of 8 pikemen and 4 beserkers, beserkers on the front line backed up by the pikes to get as man attacks to win the fight as possible, as the model at the front will be trapped if they lose (only one model can make way and there are 2 pikemen). It's a pretty frightening formation, especially with banner support and fury. On your Shadowlord point, I don't think he's really necessary unless you're up against a crossbow-heavy isengard list as S2 and S3 shooting, by far the most common kind, will both wound beserkers on 6's, so they're pretty resilient. Beserkers are a great troop, (ab)use them wherever you can, but if you're too low on numbers after putting in Saruman and Grima I recommend Feral Uruk Hai, they're a couple of points cheaper but only a little weaker for it D5 and C5 where te beserker is D6 and C7 but they still have 2A. if you're unconvinced pm Dr. Grant, he's had a lot of success with them in the past.

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 800 Isenguard
BerserkerSmash wrote: Hi all, new to the game and need some opinions on this 800 point isenguard list. Ugluck 8x Berserkers 4x Uruks with Crossbow and pike Uruk captain with Heavy armour and shield 7x Berserkers 4x Uruks with Crossbow and pike Vrasku 8x Uruks with Shield 4x Uruks with Crossbow and Pike Dark Marshal on Fellbeast Would this stand up well in a variety of missions . I like the Dark marshal for his F6, 2M, good casting abilities and a banner for the troops but 12W seems like it wouldn't last long. Am i better off with khumal who will stick around longer? The Dark Marshall is good but put him on the horse. On the fell beast youre using him for combat and Isengard is already one of the top CQ armies in the game. Hes mainly there for the banner. Crossbows with pike IDK if you can do....i thought otherwise. Berserkers are awesome but expensive. If youre playing with friends Id use them as ferals instead. Ferals are one of the best units in the game IMO. Each one will save you three points difference. Switch Up Ugluk with a Shaman. They are another one of the best units in the game, but as support. Cheap, can survive, and keeping Uruks around is awesome. Unlike orcs, easterlings, or goblins, Isengard Uruks are minimum 10 points with upgrades if youre doing it right, and even if you pass just 15 fate rolls the entire game thats 150 points youve saved....epic. Otherwise its a good list. Use the extra fell beast points and feral points possibly for another warband.

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