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 Post subject: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:20 pm 
Wayfarer
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Hello I'm just starting the SBG and I'm collecting a Rohan/Wood Elf army. So far I have 6 Riders of Rohan, Erkenbrand and a RRG on horse. I plan on having the Rohan force being mounted (after reading around on the forum it seems the best way to use Rohan) and the elves being on foot.

I'm wondering if I should get more Riders or RRG or even the Sons of Eorl. The Riders are cheaper, while the RRG have Bodyguard rule and are better in combat and the Sons are like mini-heros but cost the most. I'm starting with 500pts, as that seems to be common on this forum, and after a while going up to 700pts for tourney play (I play 40k and Fantasy tournaments already so I know what's up)

Also if I keep/get more RRG should they have throwing spears or just hand weapons? It seems the spears could work really well with the cavalry charge and their better stats.

Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:01 pm 
Craftsman
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It really depends on what exactly you want your Rohan division to do. If you want to use them as heavy calvary to punch through elements of the enemy army then I would recommend the Royal Guards or possibly the Sons of Eorl. If you decided to use them like light cavalry though, you'll want to stay with Riders of Rohan as their bows have a better range in order to keep the more fragile Riders out of trouble while still irritating the enemy to no end. With the Rohan Royal Guard the throwing spears are very useful but it can lead to hesitation between a headlong charge and trying to get another few rounds of Shooting in which can be disastrous if the enemy catches your cavalry before they charge. I'd recommend since you're just starting SBG to avoid the throwing spears with the Royal Guard for now. It saves you an extra 2 points per model and that can add up fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:23 pm 
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The main problem with riders is they come with a bow, but the 33% bow limit prevents you from using 2/3rds of them unless you take enough other non-bow warriors to make up for it. Nothing wrong with WoR, they are cheap, and while WoR w/throwing spears are probably too expensive, in small squads they can be a handy way to break up enemy formations b/c of the shooting threat. I've had great success allying with Galadhrim, and especially appreciate their pikes. So you might consider giving Rohan a foot contingent just to get the most out of your riders.

RRG are very useful if only for the bodyguard rule, but I wouldn't take more than 2 or 3 mounted in 500 points. For some reason I always give them throwing spears...they usually don't do much if anything, but when they do it's usually great. Sons of Eorl I've had mixed success...I had one take out a Shade once (clash of piquets, we were all over the board), but usually they seem to die before living up to their potential. Maybe I'm not using them right...
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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:36 am 
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Yay Rohan! I usually play all-mounted Rohan armies because I find them very fun and maneuverable.

Riders of Rohan, though they have the bow issue as whafrog mentioned, are your cheapest mounted units. They are good for bolstering your lower cav numbers and to get bows in.
I haven't used Rohan Royal Guard very much because I tend to play against Isenguard and dwarves the most (F4, good defense, lots of S4). The F4 is helpful, but seeing as the D6 is useless against S4 units and I'm not facing many terrifying units, the RRG are usually not worth it for me. If you are playing against more "normal" armies with lower fight value and strength 3, then they would be very useful for their survivability and increased chance of winning the fight.

Sons of Eorl are my personal favorite Rohan unit. They are one of the only things that is truly and awesomely unique to Rohan (other factions can get throwing weapons, various cavalry with lances, cheap heroes, etc.). Several other factions can get nice shock troops (Iron Guard, Beserkers) with 2 attacks, but Rohan is the only one with a 2-attack cavalry warrior. Granted, they are quite expensive and they don't have lances like Knights of Dol Amroth, but they do still have armored horses and D6, plus S4 and 12" movement. The double attacks turns into 3 on the charge and 6 strikes if you win the fight. And, at S4, this is the same attack potential as most of the medium-level double attack/wound Rohan heroes. Since I fight against D6 units a lot, the S4 really helps, though against Uruks, taking wounds on a 5 is not so nice. The awesome thing about these guys is a nice, small squadron has quite a bit of hitting power, enough dice to take on multiple enemies alone, and a not-so-bad chance of surviving even if they don't get the charge (just in case...). The two attacks when counter-charged lets them win the fight on equal terms with a KoDA (with Dol Amroth for Gondor! rule), but they also get 2 attacks at S4 rather than 1A at S3 (no lances without the charge).


The 12" movement helps for flanking maneuvers or getting to objectives before the enemy. Eorl the Young also has a 12" movement also, though he limits allying options. A small group led by him with another normal cav group led by a King of Man would work pretty well. One of my favorite things to do is have Gandalf on Shadowfax with two Sons of Eorl as his "thugs" or bodyguards. The whole little trio can move at 12", and if there is a problem, the Sons of Eorl can deal with it while Gandalf casts spells. A great little death-squad.
If not with Gandalf's blinding light, I would shield the Sons of Eorl behind RoR as you approach the enemy, to protect them from bowfire. 22 points to be shot down on a 6 is a bummer.

So yes, obviously I like SoE a little bit :wink: . They really help give Rohan a more strong front against elite armies, and easier trampling power against normal warriors. Just don't get too many, as they suck up points very quickly. Anywhere from 2-6 in a 700pts game is good. And remember, its 22 points for a warrior that is on par stat-wise with most of the lower-class Rohan heroes (without MWF of course) AND with a 12" armored steed to boot.

Outriders on horse are a pretty good deal, though the D4 makes them vulnerable to S2 arrows and D4 enemies. Gandalf's Cast Blinding Light can help give you the archery advantage though, especially as outriders are immune to bow limit. Be careful though-- since they are all heroes technically, they have to test individually for their courage tests. Taking a horn in outrider-heavy armies is a good idea. Other options are Saruman the White's 12" hero-inclusive stand fast, or Halbarad's 6" banner-of-no-fear (automatic passed courage tests if in range).

For the throwing spears, I've found that they are more effective on infantry against low-defense armies. In the infantry, you move around a lot more in the 6" range than on cav (staying out of charge range). They can be good to force someone out of a turtle. If the enemy is holed up between terrain with a full pike block, they have the option of staying and taking the TS hits or being forced to leave their position to engage your units. A good balance of throwing spears on the cavalry can help too, but they do suck up points if it is overdone, especially in smaller, all-cav armies.

Hope this helps a bit; sorry for the long rage about Sons of Eorl. :D :oops: :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:29 pm 
Ringwraith
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ChristsSoldier wrote:
Several other factions can get nice shock troops (Iron Guard, Beserkers) with 2 attacks, but Rohan is the only one with a 2-attack cavalry warrior.


Mahud also get 2 attacks, can ride camels which get a free hit on the charge, and can take war spears (lances)... :)
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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:53 pm 
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That free hit on the camels were a prime example of the stat creep that was showing up in late SBG forces. As noted above, just having the 2 attacks + lances made them a good option. Adding the extra attack from the "horny" camel (sorry, couldn't resist) put them a little over the top.

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:11 pm 
Craftsman
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Beowulf03809 wrote:
Adding the extra attack from the "horny" camel (sorry, couldn't resist) put them a little over the top.


Thanks for the mental image, hahaha.

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:40 pm 
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Its what you want....A good exmple is to iamgine your army.You understyand what you want when after you painted your armyyou put it in a formation like they are ready to class and see them from the front... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:27 pm 
Ringwraith
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Beowulf03809 wrote:
That free hit on the camels were a prime example of the stat creep that was showing up in late SBG forces. As noted above, just having the 2 attacks + lances made them a good option. Adding the extra attack from the "horny" camel (sorry, couldn't resist) put them a little over the top.


LOL. Still, the Sons came out after Mahud...makes me wonder if GW only likes to apply stat creep to snarly things...
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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:02 am 
Loremaster
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Well we already know any models GW can add extra skulls to get better stats and special rules. Gotta promote the skulls.

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:33 am 
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whafrog wrote:
Mahud also get 2 attacks, can ride camels which get a free hit on the charge, and can take war spears (lances)... :)

whafrog wrote:
LOL. Still, the Sons came out after Mahud...makes me wonder if GW only likes to apply stat creep to snarly things...


I didn't realize about the Mahud Raiders. Mahud are pretty overpowered anyways. The stat creep is annoying, especially since the "snarly" guys have access to all the most powerful troops now and tons of fun units to choose from (Black Guard of Barad-dur, Mahud, all types of trolls, Morannon orcs, Gundabad, make-your-own Nazgul, etc.). It seems that the good side has a much more "standard" palette to choose from, with not as many uber-powered troops or very unique soldiers. Or even elite soldiers. It seems strange to me that the evil side has access to the most elite warriors, while most good warriors (supposedly much better than orcs...) are now outclassed in most cases. We have to take our own expensive elites to even match the options from the bad side (Dol Amroth, etc), but even then we don't get any fun S5 or spiky camels or poison bows or giant elephants :(

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:28 pm 
Ringwraith
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ChristsSoldier wrote:
It seems that the good side has a much more "standard" palette to choose from, with not as many uber-powered troops or very unique soldiers. Or even elite soldiers. It seems strange to me that the evil side has access to the most elite warriors, while most good warriors (supposedly much better than orcs...) are now outclassed in most cases.


Yep, seems to me the following existing models should get S4 (add 1 point to cost):
Citadel Guard
Guards of the Fountain Court
Knights of Dol Amroth
All Numenorians
Rohan Royal Guard
Rangers of both Arnor and Gondor should be S3, but be upgradeable to "Numenorian heritage" of S4 for +1 point

It would be nice to have a Noldor elf model that is S4 and 2A.
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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:30 pm 
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I agree with whafrog, I would like to see those models with Strength 4. At the moment the only good warriors with Strength 4 are Khazad Guard, Iron Guard, Sons of Eorl, and those Grimbold guys (can't remember what they're called).

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:48 pm 
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I tell you, it's the skulls. Any GW model that can have skulls hanging from it get bonuses to their stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:10 pm 
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So, how good are the Tomb Kings in Warhammer? :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Beowulf03809 wrote:
I tell you, it's the skulls. Any GW model that can have skulls hanging from it get bonuses to their stats.

If I convert my Riders of Rohan to have skulls somewhere on them, can I give them better stats? :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:05 pm 
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ChristsSoldier wrote:
I didn't realize about the Mahud Raiders. Mahud are pretty overpowered anyways. The stat creep is annoying, especially since the "snarly" guys have access to all the most powerful troops now and tons of fun units to choose from (Black Guard of Barad-dur, Mahud, all types of trolls, Morannon orcs, Gundabad, make-your-own Nazgul, etc.). It seems that the good side has a much more "standard" palette to choose from, with not as many uber-powered troops or very unique soldiers. Or even elite soldiers. It seems strange to me that the evil side has access to the most elite warriors, while most good warriors (supposedly much better than orcs...) are now outclassed in most cases. We have to take our own expensive elites to even match the options from the bad side (Dol Amroth, etc), but even then we don't get any fun S5 or spiky camels or poison bows or giant elephants :(


This. I love using my Rohirrim, Gondorians and Dwarves. Seeing crazy amounts of Black Numenoreans, Mahud, Black Guard, etc is what has really turned me off of the game a lot in the past year or so. Good just doesn't have as many troops that can match up. Warriors of Minas Tirith and Riders of Rohan, formerly good standard troops, simply don't stand up anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Riders of Rohan Question
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:17 pm 
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General Elessar wrote:
I agree with whafrog, I would like to see those models with Strength 4. At the moment the only good warriors with Strength 4 are Khazad Guard, Iron Guard, Sons of Eorl, and those Grimbold guys (can't remember what they're called).


Grimbold's Helmingas are the guys you're thinking of. I also agree with whafrog on the Str 4, however I would really like the Royal Guards to have a choice between throwing weapons or lances with mounted but Str 4 will do. Perhaps GW will eventually realize how much they've shafted the poor Free Peoples of Middle Earth and give us something comparable to all the dark twisted things Sauron now apparently had at his disposal.

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