Newbie - Getting started advice Arnor/Rohan?

Thermo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:48 am

Hello everybody,

I recently joined the forum looking for new strategists and LOTR enthusiasts to join in an upcoming forumgame elsewhere, but having had a look around, like the community you have going here and have found myself losing hours here and there reading through topics on how to get started with LOTR miniture gaming.

When I was a lot younger, I tried to collect and paint warhammer but was probably a little young for it, didn't have friends who were interested in it and kind of missed out on the strategy gaming side of it as a result.

I love strategy games... and I love Lord of the Rings and this forum has nearly convinced me to maybe start a small collection in my spare time.

I've read through the forum and it's clear I won't fully understand the rules and army lists until I have acquired updated sourcebooks (is this right?)

In terms of minitures I like and what I've gathered from reading about warbands I was thinking of the following to start off -

w1-Halbarad + 12 Rangers of Arnor
w2-Ranger of the North
w3-RoTN
w4-RoTN

I also like the actual Grey Company models... are these classed as RoTN too? If so, because I also like the Rangers of the North models, I would likely want to do a second group like above but with Arathorn leading.
Also, from what I've gathered, having these RoTN 1:4 to the RoA allows for the large bow ratio?

Another question. Should I be focusing on learning rules for SBG? It seems the majority play this version of the game, would that be accurate?

Another set of models I like are from the Rohan lists. Erkenbrand models are nice. I'm guessing with the allied rules you could use Rohan for your cavalry contigent to compliment the above? Also, seen many suggestions that Riders of Rohan are poor and it's worth going for Royal Guard?

Anyhow, some of my musings. Getting started is probably a while off but I'd rather save cash and do it right on first attempt with meticulous planning after receiving great advice. Strengths/weaknesses of the above and what else I should think about is also much appreciated!

Thanks guys

whafrog · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:21 am

Sounds like you understand the army creation rules and are off to a good start. Yes Rohan can be allied as your cavalry. If you take Erkenbrand you can upgrade RoR to be more effective, but having a few RRG and Sons of Eorl can't hurt.

What you've outlined are armies for SBG. War of the Ring requires a lot more models and uses trays like warhammer. Armies are created as groups of companies. You move trays of models around the board rather than individual figures. I think most people play SBG, but WotR has its fans.

Thermo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:11 am

Thank whafrog, good to know I haven't completely missed the trick, shows how important it is to read!

The Erkenbrand upgrade is Riders of Westfold right?

Thanks again, looking forward to some more top tips and advice!

Zogash · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:07 pm

Hi there!

Unfortunately, I can't say anything about Arnor, but it seems alright to me.

On Rohan, however, and on cavalry in general, it's important to point out that they are fragile and extremely reliant on Might - one hero for every 5-6 riders is more or less required. Why, you might ask? Cavalry that charges is quite powerful, cavalry that gets charged, on the other hand, is dead cavalry. With the initiative mechanic as it is, chances are that you will only get to go first every odd turn, meaning that in 50% of the cases, your opponent will get to tie up your cavalry, rendering it inefficient and overwhelmed. With enough heroes able to declare heroic moves, however, you stand a greater chance of reliably getting the charge in.
Long story short: if you consider adding a cavalry contigent to your force, don't just add Erkenbrand and 12 riders, add a captain or two as well for the extra Might when things get hairy... which they surely will.

EDIT: Oh, and yes, you're correct about Erkenbrand's upgrade. **EDITED to remove specific rule** - Meh. Without the points cost, I don't see what the fuss is about... Whatever.

Thermo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:32 pm

Hi Zogash,

Thanks for taking the time to post, I appreciate it! Yeah, I'd read that cavalry was a little flaky, seems they need a bit of protection so the extra captain/s is good advice and the explanation you give is great for a beginner!

It seems to me if I did the above, the next step would certainly be some hardy infantry of some kind. Any advice?

Gondorian Captain · **Joined:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:13 pm **Posts:** 267

It depends how big an army your looking at building. Rangers of arnor should provide some solid archery and rohan cavalry will be good for helping them out when they get to combat.
Yes cavalry can be difficult to use well as you need to keep moving, really use that extra movement to its fullest to keep your opponent on the back foot. Erkenbrand is probably the best hero rohan have to offer atm. Eomer is very good too. At the very minimum have a captain to lead any cavalry you take, as has been stated you should ideally have a hero for every 6-8 riders.

If your looking for hardy infantry then dwarves are pretty hard, really depends on what you want your army to be. If you have a specific theme or idea in mind you could explore that.

Thermo · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:26 pm

Hi Gondorian Captain,

Thank you for your reply. Would I be right in saying most aim for 500pts as a good starting point?

If so, I haven't a clue how many points I'd have left from the below! But I think having an infantry, archer and cavalry contigent would be nicely balanced. What would the above likely leave me left over, roughly?

Thanks for the cavalry tactics and tips, I think I'll chuck a captain alongside as you suggest.

I don't think I'd be likely to go for Dwarves as infantry as can't think of any thematics to make it work, any other suggestions for a hardy infantry?

Also, how do the Rangers fair in the melee?

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:50 pm

at 500pts you are best sticking to one army. To be honest, it is all about which heroes you take as if you have super expensive heroes eg. aragorn, Boromir of the White tower, then you will have little other troops.
At 500pts I would recommend taking either un-named captains or the cheaper ones like faramir, erkenbrand etc to lead cavalry.

If you want hardy infantry, Gondor are a suitable alternative. Most models are Def 6 but lack the higher fight value so against more elite troops you may find yourself losing fights. Gondor do have spears though so make sure you take lots of those to give yourself as many dice per combat as possible. Gondor rangers are second only to elf bowmen in my books so are excellent choices for your archer contingent. Just remember to follow the 33% bow limit rule. Rangers also make a good counter attack/ second wave force as they have a higher FV than normal warriors. I have won many a game by throwing my rangers into the melee.

Hope this helps

whafrog · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:51 pm

Rangers are good in melee against "normal" profiles because they have a slightly higher fight score, but they only have armour so they're a bit soft. Uruks will eat them up, because they will tie the fight score, but wound much more easily; whereas Orcs and goblins will lose a tied fight roll and wound the same. Then again, goblins can easily field double your numbers, so getting as many shots in as possible before melee is critical.

For melee, one thing you can do to help is make sure as many of your warriors carry spears as you can fit. This allows you to maximize tactical options, especially if you're guarding tight spaces. Unfortunately, I think the standard box of rangers only gives you 4 spears.

Thermo · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:29 pm

All great tips everyone, thank you!

Southern Dunedain - Thanks for replying

As you say, have read lot's of you posting replies to new players saying avoid expensive heroes. I like the idea of my first boxset being Rangers of Arnor... getting a Halbarad to lead them and 3 Rangers of the North so I can use all their bows.

Then was planning to build my force around that, but their seems to be little choice without going to allies! Love the Ekernbrand model and RoR and despite what I've heard about cavalry in this game being relatively fragile, Ekernbrand seems to be a good one to lead them with the upgrade.

Thanks for advice re: Gondor troops. Didn't fancy a fully gondorian force as like the Grey Company theme to start, but from a thematic point of view, Tharbad did hold a Gondorian garrison. So with Ekernbrand leading the Westfold, you could kind of tie the three together in Enedwaith. Lot's of good advice, thanks again!

whafrog - Thanks for another post, all great advice. Will certainly be ensuring everyone has spears after reading these forums and your advice.

Does anybody have any suggestions on a 500pt army based on all mentioned in this thread?

whafrog · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:08 pm

Thermo wrote:

Love the Ekernbrand model and RoR and despite what I've heard about cavalry in this game being relatively fragile, Ekernbrand seems to be a good one to lead them with the upgrade.

If you are playing for fun and aren't overly competitive, just go with with you like, I guarantee a good time

SBG really does lend itself to moments of individual heroism. Erkenbrand is a great model and profile who can hold his own quite well, and brings a lot to the board with his special rules (horn of extra courage, and upgrading RoR).

Thermo wrote:

Does anybody have any suggestions on a 500pt army based on all mentioned in this thread?

Normally you'd do the work and post it for a critique, but ...

Your Arnor army comes in at 248 points, assuming all your RoA have spears. If not, reduce accordingly.

Erkenbrand + 6 upgraded RoR (2 with throwing spears) comes in at 163.

Total so far = 411. From here there are a few ways to go:
1) Add another Arnor hero, such as Arathorn, and he can add one more RoA
2) Add 3 more RotN, but you'll have some points left over (which you could use to give all your RoR throwing spears).
3) Add more Rohan. The problem with RoR is they all have bows, but there's a 33% limit, so as the army is currently configured they can't all shoot. The custom, for clarity, is only models posed as shooting can shoot. However, fleshing out the Rohan war band means more of your RoR can shoot.

Personally I like #3. You have 89 points, so you could add 5 mounted Royal Guard, 4 with throwing spears; or 4 RRG on foot (with throwing spears) and 2 mounted RRG (with throwing spears); or 5 RRG on foot (with throwing spears) and 1 Son of Eorl.

I kind of like the last option, just because the RRG could be nice shields for your rangers, and more than 6 mounted models is a bit much for one hero to keep mobile, whereas a Son of Eorl can kind of take care of himself. Anyway, if you flesh out the Rohan warband, then up to 4 RoR can shoot. Added to your RoA shooting that could be pretty effective.

I won't pretend this is the most competitive army as you'll likely be terribly outnumbered, but it gets you started and you'll probably have a lot of fun with it. If you get some solid shooting turns and can back up the RRG with spear-wielding Rangers, you be able to pull some rabbits out of hats...

Gondorian Captain · **Joined:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:13 pm **Posts:** 267

Cavalry is widely regarded as difficult to use or perhaps fragile. I however love cavalry in all its forms and while its been a while since I've played with an all cav force I think I can still safely say that if you get the hang of them you can really lay the hurt on the enemy. Honestly the best way to learn is to get cracking, play a few games and learn from your mistakes.

In regard to your force you can easily ally a few factions in 500pts, how effective those alliances are can very but I fully support whafrogs statement in that you should go with the theme you like. (have to say the Ranger/rohan perhaps gondor alliance is sounding quite cool to me)

I'd say that your currently looking at an infantry block of rangers, two ranks, second with spears (though bear in mind you could try skirmishing in smaller groups I will say that doing this effectively is even more difficult than using cavalry) backed up by however many riders you want to include. As I said before Erkenbrand is pt for pt the best Rohan hero in my opinion, his three might points, horn and ability to upgrade riders makes him a perfect candidate for leading cavalry. I would not include more than ten riders without a second mounted hero, even if its just a mounted ranger of the north (no models for these so you'd need to convert one).

Fitting gondor on top might take you a bit beyond 500pts, if you want infantry you could take some minas tirith warriors with shields, give all of the rangers spears and then stick one in front of the other. Lots of different options available in the gondor list.

Thermo · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:37 am

Quote:

If you are playing for fun and aren't overly competitive, just go with with you like, I guarantee a good time :

)

Ha, I have to hold my hands up, I am quite competative! But as you say, will start off with the minitures I like and what I like from the Middle-Earth setting and build from there.

Quote:

SBG really does lend itself to moments of individual heroism. Erkenbrand is a great model and profile who can hold his own quite well, and brings a lot to the board with his special rules (horn of extra courage, and upgrading RoR).

I agree, it's a great model and I'm happy that it's a good profile for my army-to-be too

There is a mounted model and a foot model... based on all mentioned re: cavalry, is it better to have him on foot leading say RRG on foot?

Also, what of Halbarad? Again, I like his miniture and his place in Middle-Earth, but how does he fair profile wise?

Quote:

Normally you'd do the work and post it for a critique, but ...

(I appreciate it! No rule books/source books or anything yet so a little blind at the moment! Just going off a few forums here and available minitures!

)

Quote:

Your Arnor army comes in at 248 points, assuming all your RoA have spears. If not, reduce accordingly.

Erkenbrand + 6 upgraded RoR (2 with throwing spears) comes in at 163.

Total so far = 411. From here there are a few ways to go:
1) Add another Arnor hero, such as Arathorn, and he can add one more RoA
2) Add 3 more RotN, but you'll have some points left over (which you could use to give all your RoR throwing spears).
3) Add more Rohan. The problem with RoR is they all have bows, but there's a 33% limit, so as the army is currently configured they can't all shoot. The custom, for clarity, is only models posed as shooting can shoot. However, fleshing out the Rohan war band means more of your RoR can shoot.

Personally I like #3. You have 89 points, so you could add 5 mounted Royal Guard, 4 with throwing spears; or 4 RRG on foot (with throwing spears) and 2 mounted RRG (with throwing spears); or 5 RRG on foot (with throwing spears) and 1 Son of Eorl.

I kind of like the last option, just because the RRG could be nice shields for your rangers, and more than 6 mounted models is a bit much for one hero to keep mobile, whereas a Son of Eorl can kind of take care of himself. Anyway, if you flesh out the Rohan warband, then up to 4 RoR can shoot. Added to your RoA shooting that could be pretty effective.

All good stuff! Again, based on all advised, I agree spears would be the way to go with the Rangers.

Thank you for all the suggestions. Out of the three options you give, I agree that 3 looks the best from what you have given, if deciding to expand the Rohan warband which would free up the RoR bows. Especially the further option of 5 RRG on foot as an infantry option, as you say, to give the rangers some protection.

In total this force would be 29 models...

Quote:

I won't pretend this is the most competitive army as you'll likely be terribly outnumbered, but it gets you started and you'll probably have a lot of fun with it. If you get some solid shooting turns and can back up the RRG with spear-wielding Rangers, you be able to pull some rabbits out of hats...

Thank you for the honesty and assistance!

Quote:

Cavalry is widely regarded as difficult to use or perhaps fragile. I however love cavalry in all its forms and while its been a while since I've played with an all cav force I think I can still safely say that if you get the hang of them you can really lay the hurt on the enemy. Honestly the best way to learn is to get cracking, play a few games and learn from your mistakes.

It's a shame they seem quite underpowered. Any top tips re: cavalry usage as well as common mistakes to avoid?

Quote:

In regard to your force you can easily ally a few factions in 500pts, how effective those alliances are can very but I fully support whafrogs statement in that you should go with the theme you like. (have to say the Ranger/rohan perhaps gondor alliance is sounding quite cool to me)

Haha, well, the Tharbad connection might let me get away with it. But in all honesty, if there were more options on the table, I would probably like a 500pt Northern army, then after building that, build other armies that interest me. But not a lot on offer unless I've missed something?

Quote:

I'd say that your currently looking at an infantry block of rangers, two ranks, second with spears (though bear in mind you could try skirmishing in smaller groups I will say that doing this effectively is even more difficult than using cavalry) backed up by however many riders you want to include. As I said before Erkenbrand is pt for pt the best Rohan hero in my opinion, his three might points, horn and ability to upgrade riders makes him a perfect candidate for leading cavalry. I would not include more than ten riders without a second mounted hero, even if its just a mounted ranger of the north (no models for these so you'd need to convert one).

All sound advice. More thumbs up for spears and for Erkenbrand. What's this about Mounted Ranger of the North? So there are more profiles available than the model range because if so, I'm happy to play about and convert. What else would a Grey Company themed army have available?

whafrog · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:27 am

Thermo wrote:

Haha, well, the Tharbad connection might let me get away with it. But in all honesty, if there were more options on the table, I would probably like a 500pt Northern army, then after building that, build other armies that interest me. But not a lot on offer unless I've missed something?

If you want an older theme there are plenty of thematic reasons for an Arnor/Gondor alliance. Ardevui and Malbeth are a pretty good combo (so I've heard...never used them myself) and between them you get a warband of WoA, and a warband of RoA. It's not Grey Company, so you're stuck with the 33% bow limit, and all the WoA are metal, but still... Ally in a King of Men from Gondor leading some Knights, or mounted Citadel Guard, and you have a fairly decent well-rounded force with a good theme. Malbeth has a special rule that helps your warriors avoid wounds, which is pretty handy.

Thermo · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:14 pm

whafrog wrote:

Thermo wrote:

Haha, well, the Tharbad connection might let me get away with it. But in all honesty, if there were more options on the table, I would probably like a 500pt Northern army, then after building that, build other armies that interest me. But not a lot on offer unless I've missed something?

If you want an older theme there are plenty of thematic reasons for an Arnor/Gondor alliance. Ardevui and Malbeth are a pretty good combo (so I've heard...never used them myself) and between them you get a warband of WoA, and a warband of RoA. It's not Grey Company, so you're stuck with the 33% bow limit, and all the WoA are metal, but still... Ally in a King of Men from Gondor leading some Knights, or mounted Citadel Guard, and you have a fairly decent well-rounded force with a good theme. Malbeth has a special rule that helps your warriors avoid wounds, which is pretty handy.

Hmm old theme is something to think about, but I have to admit, I really dislike the Arnor Warrior models.

What I might do, just to get started and into the fun of having a force is stick to an all "Grey Company" theme, aim for 500pts to have a play around with because I like the models and theme and then start to build up further 500pt allied armies and link them together for bigger point games when I get to that point.

I'm thinking of two warbands of 12 Rangers of Arnor, with 6 in each having spears (is it worth all having spears or just second rank?) I want Halbarad to lead one (how is he as a hero?)

As I have read this forum, can Rangers of the North lead warbands? If so, I'd want one of these leading the second 12 Rangers of Arnor on foot.

Then so they have the 100% bow limit, an additional 7 Rangers of the North, but based on a suggestion mentioned above, maybe convert and have them mounted.

What would everyone's thoughts be with this?

I'm going to post this suggestion for critique in the armies thread as it gets more attention than beginners!

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:29 pm

Thermo wrote:

I'm thinking of two warbands of 12 Rangers of Arnor, with 6 in each having spears (is it worth all having spears or just second rank?)

If spears in the second rank give you maxed points then fine. Personally I'd fill out extra points with spears in the first rank, you never know when things can get turned around.

Thermo wrote:

I want Halbarad to lead one (how is he as a hero?)

There are few "bad" heroes in the game, there is a fairly standard and accurate point system for pricing them, and he's just fine. There are probably only a few heroes people avoid: Theoden (no Will), Lurtz (less value than other options), and Dalamyr (a Hasharin is better).

Thermo wrote:

As I have read this forum, can Rangers of the North lead warbands?

No, they are independent heroes. It's important to note that each one is its own warband. This is useful during deployment, as you can plunk down a single RotN one at a time while your opponent has to deploy his full warbands. Your opponent has to commit his forces, then you can deploy your full warbands in reaction. Thematically it suits their role as scouts.

Thermo · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:40 pm

I hope you're all proud to hear I've just purchased my first model, Halbarad. Hopefully this will be followed up with more soon!

kidterminal · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:33 am

Congratulations! Remember that the Grey Company can field the sons of Elrond. But that would be later when you play larger battles.

Thermo · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:33 pm

Thanks! All good advice

now just need some rangers to go with him. Come on eBay, lets win some bids! Also got myself Erkenbrand for a future Rohan force

if anybody sees anything, let me know!

Thermo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:10 pm

Well, my 99p ebay rulebook arrived this morning! Guessing it's not the full or up to date version (A5 rules manual) but should certainly get me started before I speak to Green Dragon about the Kingdoms of Men sourcebook.

Here we go!

Newbie - Getting started advice Arnor/Rohan?

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