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Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
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Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Why in the world does he have 3 will? Um....whats with them that they have so much compared to all other troops? Anyone?
Author:  orc-archer [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
What is Will? The Hobbit rulebooks says this:
"Many heroes of Middle-earth are possessed of a superhuman strength of purpose - an iron-hearted resolve that enables them to face impossible odds."

Stubborn and strong-willed for their cause, I'm also of the impression that Dunlendings are a scattered folk (tribes) and gathering people requires a strong sense of will from a leader. The may also be really angry at the horse lords(the Rohirrim) and want some payback, which fuels their purpose.

It's a bit crazy that they suddenly got +1 Strength with the update, a human captain with S5 is very rare and strange compared to an Uruk-hai captain.
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Dunlending Chieftain is a very underestimated model IMO. Might not be able to win duels too well but can certainly be relied upon to wound high defence models. Also he is one of the few evil models who has a good chance of negating Thranduil's circlet of kings
Author:  Zarathustra Suicuine [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
It's weird as their king, the wolfsbane, only has 2 Will..
Author:  Grungehog [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
but then he does have 3 might so maybe he just beats his followers up if they don't get angry enough for battle
Author:  orc-archer [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Zarathustra Suicuine wrote:
It's weird as their king, the wolfsbane, only has 2 Will..


He isn't a king, but a royal blood outcast. An outcast isn't a king, but he could be in the far future. I'd like to think of him as a more successful chieftain.

Besides, Thrydan's rules were made sometime after the Dunlendings, he was in a WD supplement. He could just cleave people in half if they didn't follow him, rule through fear not willpower.
Author:  Hodush [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
I was going to mention this a few months ago. The dunlendings were swayed by Sarumans magic, so I don't see how they can have additional will compared to others. I think its rather stupid given that boromir also only has one will to represent him not being able to fight the ring - the greatest source of dark magic in the world - which is fair enough as there were very few who could resist it. Yet we come to Sarumans influence and somehow the rules are reversed. They should get a special rule if Saruman is in the force I reckon, not that it will be changed
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Yeah I agree with you^ it makes no sense. They poop on Boromir and you say a random Dunlending has 3 times the will?

Like you said, Saruman dummied him and Boromir was fighting the most powerful force on earth. Way different.


Does Boromir suddenly get weak in the knees after an orc shaman tries to do a spell after Boromir has killed orcs for a decade????
Author:  Tezzy [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Are spellcasting orcs really that common though? None are mentioned in the books or movies, though we know from the Hobbit that mortals could cast magic (they think the Necromancer is a human sorcerer). I imagine spellcasting in Middle Earth is very uncomon, even amongst elves.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Still you think Boromir has almost no chance to resist it?
Author:  Dr Grant [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Will isn't just about resisting The Ring though, The Nazgul have 12+ Will and they weren't for renowned for their Ring resistance...

As Orc-Archer says, Will can be seen to represent stubbornness and strength of purpose which seems appropriate for such a character.

Ultimately more variety in stat-lines is good for the game and the chieftain offers up some nice variety in the Isengard list. Personally I don't use him as I prefer a pure Uruk list but as you can see players like Marsbar rate him highly - I can see him being an effective leader at low points values where, with the absence of spell-casters, the Will would be more useful for boosting those crucial failed courage checks.

As for Boromir's lack of Will, it's definitely a shame but it comes form an era when the game was HEAVILY narratively driven and character's profiles really reflected their on-screen performance; particularly having 0 Fate if they died. They've now moved away from this stand-point (hence the 3 Will Boromir of the White Tower profile) which is better for points match games where you want nicely balanced profiles rather than fluffy fun.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Yeah I understand that. Very true. I just wish the good Boromir wasnt so much....
Author:  legion [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Honestly I love that The Dunland Chieftain has 3 Will. This is the kind of variety the game needs. Otherwise, people would just compare him to a Uruk Captain and pick the obvious one.
Author:  KhaosRising [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Hodush wrote:
I was going to mention this a few months ago. The dunlendings were swayed by Sarumans magic, so I don't see how they can have additional will compared to others. I think its rather stupid given that boromir also only has one will to represent him not being able to fight the ring - the greatest source of dark magic in the world - which is fair enough as there were very few who could resist it. Yet we come to Sarumans influence and somehow the rules are reversed. They should get a special rule if Saruman is in the force I reckon, not that it will be changed


I don't really see them being "swayed" by Saruman's magic. They've hated and skirmished against Rohan for centuries. Then a powerful leader comes up and tells you he is going to attack them and that they should help and in the process reclaim their land.

You don't need need to be a first class orator (which Saruman was) to rile up a crowd like that. :yay:
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
Give em a good speech some beer and you've got a few hundred war bands!
Author:  Zarathustra Suicuine [ Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whats up with Dunlending chieftan?
KhaosRising wrote:
Hodush wrote:
I was going to mention this a few months ago. The dunlendings were swayed by Sarumans magic, so I don't see how they can have additional will compared to others. I think its rather stupid given that boromir also only has one will to represent him not being able to fight the ring - the greatest source of dark magic in the world - which is fair enough as there were very few who could resist it. Yet we come to Sarumans influence and somehow the rules are reversed. They should get a special rule if Saruman is in the force I reckon, not that it will be changed


I don't really see them being "swayed" by Saruman's magic. They've hated and skirmished against Rohan for centuries. Then a powerful leader comes up and tells you he is going to attack them and that they should help and in the process reclaim their land.

You don't need need to be a first class orator (which Saruman was) to rile up a crowd like that. :yay:

This, I've never thought of the Dunlandings as evil, rough, brutal and harsh yes, but when your forced into a land such as Dunland you don't get much choice. Also, imagine the position, the head of the Istarri, one of the most powerfull figures in the world offers you the chance to join him in crushing the people who drove you off your homes, the ones who forced you into the bleak and harsh hills you now dwell in and look down upon you for that.
I'd say it would have been an appealing choice.
I agree on the Will buisuiness concerning Isildur and Boromir, Frodo gets free will and all the sympathy despite faltering at the last minuete, and seems to have been corrupted by it just as quickly as either of the latter, but because he already had it everyone is like "poor Frodo" and demeans two characters who actually had a lot more reason/excuse to act like they did.
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