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Numenor army?
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=28907		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Numenor army?
I have a pretty large elven host with most of the major heroes that I have been playing for a few year. But now I am looking to change things up a bit by expanding into some newer armies to use as allies with the elves and to run solo. I have a bunch of Numenor swordsmen from the last alliance boxes but I have never really used them for much. I also have both named heroes for the list but no metal spear or bowmen. My question is would the Numenorians make a nice addition to my army, nice enough that it would warrant buying about 12 spearmen and searching for archers? Are they any fun to use in game? Because with only the one troop chose on paper they just look like a worse version of the high elves. Or would it be better to get rid of them so I can try something else?
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
The heroes are nice, Elendil and Isildur mtd can be a right pain but the troops are god-damn awful. I would rather take more elves than ally in numenor.
Author:  rigg1313 [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
Numenor are nothing impressive.
The only way you could work them in, which is what I have trialed with some success is to bring in the numenorians with spears as cheaper spear support for your high elves (2 points cheaper than their elven counterparts). You can do this by easy converting the swordmen into spears men but getting some stuff off ebay or some people use brass rods as spears.

Its kind of beating the fluff a bit and turning it slightly cheasy but since Numenor don't have access to cavalry I take Isildur mounted (l love the model and his rules with the ring make him a pain for your opponent, I've had him and Beorn take down a Balrog in 2 turns) with an allied in Beregond mounted (easy Greenstuff cape and wala you have a beregond on a horse) and some Knights of Minas Tirith. This makes for a very solid cavalry unit that can with Isildur take on anything even a Balrog (though you might need a bit of luck there still :P ).
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
If you're ambitious you could make your own Numenorian cavalry. There may not be official rules for it, but c'mon, we know how much it costs to put a warrior on a horse.
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
Why is Numenor bad they have the same stat line as Rohan and Gondor warriors and their cost is in line with that? Are they just so horrible adequate that they, like the Easterlings, are boring to field and fight? I am looking to add something new to my army to make it more fun to play. So I don't care if it will kill black guard or a Balrog I just to know if they can put on a good enough show to justify paying $150+ to get them.

P.S. Yes horsemen would look nice if done right but I already bought 2 boxes of Rivendell Knights so please stop bringing up horsemen.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
They lack heroic variety. You have 3 options: Elendil, Isildur and a generic Capt. There is nothing wrong with Numenor. I've seen all numenor armies and they look impressive, but they lack variety. They are best used as an allied contingent to a high elf army.

They are indeed similar to Rohan/Gondor. However, they have no special rules (some view as good others as bad, I am indifferent on the matter), Their fight value is better than WMT, but that is really all they have going for them. They wear reg armor and carry a shield. If someone were fielding a numenor army and they took the time to craft a warband of "heavy armor" numenorians, I would allow them to play against me with their custom band. We all know upgrading a rank and file warrior to hvy armor costs 1-2 pts.

If you want to field numenorians, you will have to prepare yourself for a very vanilla army, or do a lot of extra work to spice them up. I spend far too much money on minis so I don't need much of a justification to spend $150 on OOP minis. In fact, the excuse "They're OOP" is usually justification enough.

PS- I really like the idea of using them as spear support for High Elves. That is a legit use of them which would require little to no modifications.
Author:  Hodush [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
Numenor are a middle of the park army. You should think of them along the lines of a Minas Tirith or Moria Goblin army.

Their main drawbacks are their limited choice of troops as you have mentioned. They are capable of winning games though, and you can get enough variety there to change the play style a little.

They are definitely capable of winning and I liked the models so I got 12+ each of bows and spears. I played against an Uruk army with crossbows and beat it, not against the strongest player, but thats fine as Isengard is known to be very competitive and quite forgiving.

My list is Isildur, 2 Captains, 12 Sword + Shields. 12 Spear + Shield, 12 Bows for 500 pts. You can take out troops here and there to add horses and shields which doesn't sound like much, but it does change things a bit and makes those heroes really important. I love Numenor, so I enjoy playing it, but it's up to you. I'd suggest getting them because they are good sculpts :)

The strengths are that they are cheap, yet have higher FV than most opponents and as you can normally outnumber people, you should be ok if the dice are average. A banner can be useful, but playtest to see how you go. If Numenor had the cavalry option, bodyguard and an option to upgrade to S4, D6 or better bows, they would be nasty!
Author:  rigg1313 [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
Hodush wrote:
If Numenor had the cavalry option, bodyguard and an option to upgrade to S4, D6 or better bows, they would be nasty!


Damn I wish they had those options, in the books they are badass in the game they are underwhelming... Its weird how a Man of Numenor with shield is 2 less D than a Fountain Court Guard with shield. Fountain Court Guards wear old Numenorian armour, so it has apparently gotten stronger with age?

In an awesome world a Man of Numenor would be F4 S4 D7 A1 W1 C4. Then elites would have higher F, C/or/Bodyguard and perhaps 2 Attacks. Give them S3 bows as well because their bows were metal.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
I think that would be a fun project. Building up the numenor culture. Add a few more heroes, a spear centric hero, a bow centric hero, a sword centric hero, and of course cavalry!
Author:  NarsilReforged [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
http://lotr-bythebook.wikispaces.com/Introduction
This was done by DMS I think. They have a few made up Numenorean profiles. But honestly I don't think you should buy a numenor army. They might be fun to paint up and Last Alliance can be fun to use in friendly games but tbh they're not that competitive tourney wise. Just the same as Gondor is. Only reason why you see more Gondor is 'cause it has so many more options.
Author:  Frêrin [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
I have an idea, how you can use your numenorean shield warriors without spending more money. What about taking mounted Isildur, 11 shield warriors and a banner. It costs about 240 points and you have a 11" line with F4 the option to shield and the reroll and as bonus a really potent hero.
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
The problem with that is the banner only covers 6" of the line so some of the guys won't get it's effect. I could just run a warband with shields and see what I think of them on the field. I did try something like what Frerin said with dwarves once but with a concave line. I guess I won't be getting rid of them just yet. Thanks for the advise guys!
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
rigg1313 wrote:
Hodush wrote:
If Numenor had the cavalry option, bodyguard and an option to upgrade to S4, D6 or better bows, they would be nasty!


Damn I wish they had those options, in the books they are badass in the game they are underwhelming... Its weird how a Man of Numenor with shield is 2 less D than a Fountain Court Guard with shield. Fountain Court Guards wear old Numenorian armour, so it has apparently gotten stronger with age?

In an awesome world a Man of Numenor would be F4 S4 D7 A1 W1 C4. Then elites would have higher F, C/or/Bodyguard and perhaps 2 Attacks. Give them S3 bows as well because their bows were metal.

I've given this a lot of thought. 3 new budget heroes would really spice up numenor.
1. An archer guy. His stats look like varaku the uruk to include double shot. He carries a steel numenorian bow (an elf bow) and allows you to upgrade your numenorian archers so they too can carry steel bows.
2. A heavy infintry guy. His stats are the same as a numenor capt to include heavy armor, spear and a shield. His special is to allow you to upgrade your spear numenorians to wear heavy armor and carry pikes (a la easterling style)
3. The third hero is built exactly like mahur. A light infintry guy with 3a and reg armor. He allows you to upgrade your numenorians to have a speed of 8".
Author:  rigg1313 [ Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
I'd change the mahuar numenorians special rule to upgrade strength to 4 on models. A sort of Grimbold special rule. Numenorians are suppose to be taller and stronger than normal men.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
That makes sense.
Author:  Grungehog [ Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
The fact remains, they were the first men produced, and as such GW in the youth of our wonderful system, forgot to make them above average, instead they are exactly that... nothing special.
That said their named heroes are formidable on the field, such a stark contrast.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
They were above average for their time. FV4 was unheard of when the box sets were released to coincide with the movies. Just a shame they never got upgraded as more stuff was released which was cheaper & better.
Author:  Hodush [ Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor army?
SD, they were "Warriors of Gondor" until after ROTK, so they had FV 3. GW only made them FV 4 to make them different from Minas Tirith and not as bad as Rohan (who have unlimited throwing spears).

That LOTR by the book site is interesting to look at, thanks.
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