Fair enough Hithero, maybe I just misunderstood you. Either way i am a much bigger fan of ppicking shots individually/small chunks shooting at specific targets who are designated before rolls, i.e "I am going to shoot this lot with this lot, if i get hits/ wounds, figure A dies first, then B, then C, capiche?"

Here's how I do it, and it's extremely simple and my opponents never mind it, in fact they use it too: step 1. Choose a group of archers, 2. declare target group, making sure that you choose a specific group, like "Those orc archers over there" and specify a specific target to start with ie "I'm aiming at him, and any other kills will go to the right of him", 3. roll to hit, 4. roll to wound, 5. apply wounds as previously stated. If you suddenly go "Oh, I got 4 wounds, so I'll apply some to the hero and some to warriors" then you're just being a jerk. So long as you decide who is getting shot and who is getting wounded first, you'll be fine.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Hithero's way is the most standard and the fastest way. Try it, he's right. What you [Marsbar] described in your latest post is exactly the same thing as Hithero is trying to say.

Roll your dice to hit and then select targets = select targets and then roll your dice to hit.
Afterwards, if all targets are killed on the same roll then roll all and take off what you want. If they are NOT killed on the same roll then roll one by one, selecting a target each time (ie. say first I'm killing model A and then I'm killing model B, roll 1, roll next, roll next, roll next).

The only thing in group shooting to remember is that you CAN NOT do the following:
Roll to wound against a group of models at whom you need different scores to wound and afterwards allocate the dice. An example: 10 hits of S2 at 5 models with D4 and 5 with D5. You roll 66,55,44,33,22,11. You CAN NOT say that you allocated 2x6 onto D5 and 2x5 onto D4 because you don't know what order this was rolled. If a 6s was require for everything then this is fine to do.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

In my group we normally play that you can choose a bunch of archers and take shots at a group of enemy all in one go, and all casualties will come from the closest models.
If there are mixed defence values then after hits are rolled I would roll wound dice in batches to match the number of enemy at the front with the same defence.

It's similar to how wound allocation works in Warhammer 40,000 and works out fine, just the same as rolling individually.

I think the point is if the models you're attempting to hit are the same, is it ok to roll all the dice and select your targets in that group based on number of hits? (as long as the targeted group of models are the same)

_________________
Subscribe to the GBHL YouTube for daily SBG content http://Www.youtube.com/gbhlpodcast
*5th in 2014 GBHL

yeah i understand now, i think i just misread what Hithero was saying completely :p

We do the opposite, except the shooter has to indicate which models die in which order *before* rolling the dice

If you rolled all your shooters at once you'd have to do it that way, but we break it down, e.g.: "this group of 4 rangers is firing at this group of 5 uruks, and the kill order is this one, that one,..." etc

whafrog's way is second best to the actual rules, IMO.

I think they should be done a shot at a time (rolling all the rolls for a single shot speeds it up, but you may as well roll to hit and if it hits roll all in the ways simultaneously, then roll to wound if successful - otherwise, rolling dice that don't need to be rolled). I seriously dislike the idea of rolling everyone's shots at once when aiming at more than one target.

Multiple people shooting at one target can be a waste of shots, yes, but that's the whole point of one shot at a time. If you kill the guy you're going for, you then choose the next one and don't waste shots. I'd struggle with it, but the closest thing to that that would save time (when used to it, I guess) is to declare (using an example here) "these 12 rangers, shooting at those 6 orcs. Orc one will take the first wound, orc 3 the second, orc 5 the thrid, orc 4 the fourth, orc 6 the fifth and orc 2 the sixth" - again, additional shots being wasted. the most accurate form in which to do it actually is to use the proper one shot at a time ruleset.

That's actually the point of ensuring you say which group you are shooting at. I don't understand why people keep saying that rolling one at a time is better than in groups. The outcome is identical and you don't spend an obscene amount of time in the shoot phase just to kill a handful of models.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

But Draugluin, the problem with multiple shots at multiple targets being shot all at once is that you may have had in the way rolls for some and different weapon options would make a difference as well.

I understand what people are trying to say, even though they'll think I won't, but it does actually make a difference. If it didn't, I'd simply agree and do it your way as it would be an enlightenment I hadn't picked up on before.

How would you have different ITW rolls?

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Because of line of sight? I don't get what you mean? Just because two warriors are stood next to each other, doesn't necessarily mean that you can't have an in the way roll for one and not the other. Then there's things like intervening models from within the group (models at the back couldn't be removed without having taken in the way rolls).

That's why you shoot with groups, that share similar characteristics. You would never roll a bunch of dice for a group of Rangers AND WoMT, so why would you roll a bunch of dice for a group of models that would need different ITW rolls? The whole point of rolling a bunch of dice at once is for convenience, so you would obviously only roll dice from models that match in every way.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

No, as Drauguin suggested, all that is factored in to how the shooting groups and target groups are created, eg from my last game. You create shooting groups and target groups that have the same criteria in all respects, including in-the-ways.

Sometimes (most of the time) the groupings are really obvious, and sometimes it's very convoluted. Any time we find we're wasting time on figuring out the groupings we just default back to green die + red die and do one shot at a time.

We play it the way many people on here have suggested:

We pick a group of guys who all have the same missile weapons and chance of hitting and declare that they're firing at a group of enemy models that they can all see and have the same chance of wounding. The shooter then gives preference on the order in which they'll be killed.

Thus, 6 warriors of Rohan (S2 bows) are firing at 1 Uruk with pike (D5) 1 Feral Uruk (D5) and 1 Uruk with shield (D6). The Rohan player needs 6's to wound them all and declares that his preference is: Feral, Shield, Pike. He then rolls 6 dice to hit, 4 hit, he then rolls 4 dice to wound getting 2 6's. The Feral Uruk and the Uruk with shield are removed.

Everyone's happy, life goes on.

I do like the sound of the green, red and white dice though. That's a nice idea.

_________________
Finished 2nd in the 2014 GBHL. My Wife's so proud

Free SBG fanzine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569

I think breaking your shots into reasonable groups as mentioned above eliminates all the concerns.

You have ten archers all shooting at a group of enemy troops Four archers would have an In The Way due to some terrain and the rest a clear shot. Don't roll all ten dice together. Simply say "here's the six with no In The Way" and roll, count how many hit. Now roll for the other four. If any hit then check your In The Way.

If you get to the point where some of those "potential In The Way" would have a clear shot at maybe one or two enemy models but not the whole group, then just roll those individual shots separate.

If you have any Heroes or models with different Shoot values in the group, just use a different color die for them or roll them separate.

If you are targeting a variety of enemy troops then break your groups down further to keep things clean ("group 1 is shooting at the cavalry, group 2 at the warriors", for example).

The basic point being in many case you can roll for groups very fairly and with no risk of abuse. If there are any possible exceptions just break down the groups a little.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Well when I used to play in order to save some time we had for instance 10 elf archers we used to say : 1,2,3,4....10 targets for my archers we rolled 10 dice to hit with the order we had appointed them and whatever hit we rolled one by one the dice until we scored a wound and then we moved to the next target

Some good examples of how everyone interprets the rule here, and lot's of examples of avoiding overkill!

_________________
Subscribe to the GBHL YouTube for daily SBG content http://Www.youtube.com/gbhlpodcast
*5th in 2014 GBHL

No one is suggesting that, the whole criteria is the targets have the same chance of diing from a shot in order to make group attacks. Saying that its still mathamatically possible.

For example a target group has a couple of models in the open and the rest in cover. You obviously state that those in the open are target priority and after rolling to hit and wound you score 3 kills. You now take off the 2 models in the open and then roll for in the way on the third behind the wall.