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| Radagast vs Mumakil... http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=22682 |
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| Author: | Rozinante [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Radagast vs Mumakil... |
Long ago on this forum, I asked if Radagast's "Panic Steed" would work on a Mumakil; all agreed "No...the Mumakil is not a mount." The new Warband rules now specifically state that the Mumakil is the Commander's mount. Bad news for the Mumakil? |
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| Author: | Ellethorn [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
That is an interesting change, I don't have the new fallen realms so I was wondering if it says anything about the Mumakil only being effected by spells that do damage? |
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| Author: | Valamir [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
I shall have to look over the Mumak rules again, though I would imagine that GW would probably state that Radagast's panic steed doesn't work on the Mumak- or, if it did, it should have a slightly different effect. |
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
Just read the rules. Well... it appears yes AND as the mumak's auto pass courage tests does not say it works for a mount fear test thingy, the mumak might just run away. Im not sure though that this was intended. |
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| Author: | Rozinante [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
The "Fearless" special rule is real specific: courage tests for broken force and against terrifying creatures. That would cover Radagast's special charge rule, that the mounts also have to pass a courage test (if it survived the Warbands revision...I will check)--but "Panic Steed" is not a courage test. The immunity to magic also looks very specific: only against spells that prevent normal movement. Whether it was intended is a good question: so much is exactly the same...why make a change like that except on purpose? If an accident, it should be clarified in the inevitable FAQ, I hope. The Mumakil is vunerable enough as is, without giving him yet another weakness to boost a wizard's popularity. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
The Mumak's immunity to magic is that only magical powers that do damage work, all others fail (unless the rule changed) |
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
That isnt what i meant> When you lsoe your rider a mount takes a courage test... in the mumaks case his fearless rule does not count. A lost rider does not spawn a broken force test or a terrifying creature test. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
A Mumak is immune to Panic Steed, if Panic Steed does not cause wounds. |
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
It does not say that. It says you cannot use things which restrict movement. Panic steed does not directly restrict movement...much |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
In the One Rulebook and Harad sourcebook, the only spells which can affect Mumakil are the ones that do damage. Has it had a rule change then? |
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| Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
Well how ever stated long ago that the Mumak is not a mount was wrong. The similar sentences in the ORB and that found in the Fallen Realm state: the Mumak is effectively his mount...the Mumak and the Commander count as two models and not as one as is the case with normal cavalry models. As for Panic Steed. It would not work. Since the Mumak is immune to the effects of all magical powers that "would prevent it from moving normally." Panic Steed prevents the Mumak from moving normally. Better is the description in the ORB: "magical powers that affect the mind cannot affect the Mumak." The only way to make a Mumak to move abnormally is to compel/immobilize the commander or directly wound the Mumak and have it stampede. In the Fallen Realm sourcebook, the War Mumak of Hard is officially listed as a (Mumak, Monster). |
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| Author: | Ring_of_Gyges [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
Panic Steed doesn't prevent the Mumak from moving normally, it doesn't do anything to its movement. Panic Steed removes the mount from the table as if a casualty. That's no more "preventing it from moving" than a Sorcerous Blast that kills it "prevents" the dead model from moving. As written, yeah, Panic Steed hoses the Mumak. The best solution IMHO would be either to errata the Mumak into not being a mount or biting the bullet and letting Radagast go nuts. |
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| Author: | Ring_of_Gyges [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: The Mumak's immunity to magic is that only magical powers that do damage work, all others fail (unless the rule changed) The rule changed. |
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| Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
I disagree. The spell affects the normal movement of the Mumak. The spell affects the normal movement in a way that panics it and causes it to flee, or simply "rears up and is removed from the table." In the spells description as what is done to the steed the spell will cause the Mumak to "rears up", that is affecting the normal movement. The spell does not say the steed is a causality when removed. |
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
that is because it is a mount and not a casualty... just like warg and rider must die to get 1 casualty from a warg rider so would in theory a mumak and chief if the mumak really is a mount |
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| Author: | Ring_of_Gyges [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
GW rules are a little like zen koans. If a tree falls and no one hears it, does it make any noise? If a Mumak's movement only happens in the fluff description, does it really move? If you find yourself in a red rage choking the life out of a little old man in a robe, you've got the wrong guy. Go find a red shirt. |
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| Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
Rozinante wrote: Long ago on this forum, I asked if Radagast's "Panic Steed" would work on a Mumakil; all agreed "No...the Mumakil is not a mount." The new Warband rules now specifically state that the Mumakil is the Commander's mount. Bad news for the Mumakil? The rules for the Mumak(il) from the ORB and the new Fallen Realms are still the same in regards to the mamak being the commanders mount. So if it was a "no" then, why would it have changed now? The spells listed in the Fallen Realm are the same that were worded in the ORB description. Guess its going to be one of those FAQ answers that we're going to say "OOOoooooh...yeah," either way it goes. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
In ORB it says Quote: "magical powers that affect the mind cannot affect the Mumak, only magical powers that deal damage can affect it" In the new Fallen Realms sourcebook, this second clause is not mentioned, thus it no longer forbids panic stted, though it did use to. |
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
Mr werewolf with the smackdown!! |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radagast vs Mumakil... |
I would say that it isn't supposed to, but the rules say it can be used on a mumak. |
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