As per rule is only cast "once per game" therefore cannot be resisted, nor can he cast it anymore, effectively don't get within 6" of him and you should be safe
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| Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=23123 |
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| Author: | Telchar [ Sat May 26, 2012 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
So, my brother and I were playing a game, and wanted to use Thranduil to cast Nature's wrath on my Uruks. This was cast automatically. Now I wanted to resist the spell, but as he auto-cast, he didn't throw any dice, and as such there was nothing I could compare my own throw to. How to solve this? |
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| Author: | madtankdog [ Sat May 26, 2012 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
As per rule is only cast "once per game" therefore cannot be resisted, nor can he cast it anymore, effectively don't get within 6" of him and you should be safe
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| Author: | Telchar [ Sat May 26, 2012 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
madtankdog wrote: As per rule is only cast "once per game" therefore cannot be resisted, nor can he cast it anymore, effectively don't get within 6" of him and you should be safe Why does it being cast only once per game mean it can't be resisted? It's a bit late for that, he was in the middle of my Uruk Battleline when this problem arose. 
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| Author: | Elessar Telcontar [ Sat May 26, 2012 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
The fact that it can only be cast once per game has nothing to do with that it cannot be resisted. Since no dice are thrown, it cannot be resisted. If I remember correctly, it actually says that it cannot be resisted. I believe there was another topic about this already (here or on TLA). |
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| Author: | Telchar [ Mon May 28, 2012 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
I see, then we played it correctly in the end. BTW: Eventually, nothing happened, as my brother had his usual abysmal dice rolling, and all my warriors lived and stood up the next turn. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
when I played in the doubles in june, it was ruled that thranduil cast NW on a 6 so you had to roll a 6 to resist. didnt make much difference tbh. |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Since it is a special rule can he "cast" it while engaged in combat? This came up in our game recently, I say yes because as a special rule being in combat does not keep it from being used. Any thoughts? |
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| Author: | hithero [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
No, it's still a spell and follows the normal rules for casting. |
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| Author: | Farmer Maggot [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Simon Grant is currently working on a new FAQ for Lord of the Rings and he confirmed that you can resist Thranduil's Nature’s Wrath on a 6. |
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
The most logical thing is to make it resistable on a 6 because EVERY SINGLE SPELL IN THE GAME CAN BE RESISTED ON A 6+. Just because it's automatically cast doesn't mean it can't be resisted - it doesn't say that it can't. Every spell is CAST before a resistance roll is made, at which point it gets resisted. Another rule that this casting applies to is Undying's rule - a successful CAST is done regardless whether the spell has been resisted and hence he gains back Will regardless of the resistance rolls. |
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| Author: | SidTheSloth [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Quote: @blackmist: EVERY SINGLE SPELL IN THE GAME CAN BE RESISTED ON A 6+. then what about wood elf sentinels? |
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| Author: | Farmer Maggot [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Many of the objections seem to be from people who argue that other "abilities" cannot be resisted. However Thranduil has equipment that allows him to cast spells, it doesn't say he has an ability that works like Nature's Wrath so therefore should follow the same rules as any spell being cast. Nowhere does it say the spell cannot be resisted, just it is automatically cast. The Wood Elf Sentinal songs for example state that they are like magical powers but cannot be resisted. [SidTheSloth replied while I was writing this.] |
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
SidTheSloth wrote: then what about wood elf sentinels? See Farmer Maggot's reply It's a special rule / ability which states that it cannot be resisted. Nature's Wrath is not an ability, it's a magical power which can be cast and if it can be cast then it can be resisted unless otherwise stated in the rule.
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| Author: | Jobu [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Unless it is sorcerous blast apparently. |
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Sorcerous blast can be resisted by the model it is cast upon. Any models that are hit indirectly are past the resisting stage. Just some people make the rules reading too complicated. Cast - Resist - See what happens. You can't resist AFTER rolling for the spell's effects, that's why a model hit in the 6th rank by a 1st rank blasted model can resist. You can resist before rolling for what happens. Simple. |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Then why is it more logical to be able to resist when no dice are thrown to cast? |
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Throwing no dice and casting is the same as throwing 1 dice and getting a 6, you still get to the same stage: you cast. That's got nothing to do with sorcerous blast because that's way past the casting and resisting stage when you get to the effect. Also in case of SBlast it would mean that depending on the effect you can resist (ie. if a model goes 5" you're fine, but if it goes 6" then you can resist) and that wouldn't make sense because all the other models would already be affected, in which case a resistance would cancel the whole spell or just the hero who got hit? |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
In that case it would only be the hero who may escape the effect since the rule states " if a Hero is a victim of a magical power he can resist it by rolling one or more dice", no where does it state when, only after a "final casting value" has been determined. No one said being a no name soldier was a great job. As written if that hero is the second hero, and the first already tried to resist, it seems that second hero can not resist since there is no reference to "heroes". As in "if HEROES are victims of a...." ala natures wrath. An auto cast for natures wrath would be a 4+, since it always is "cast" on a 4+. Does that mean if a hero tries to resist thranduils crown that all he has to do is roll a 4 then? or a 3 and might it to a 4? Yes, all spells are resisted on a 6, I don't disagree, but auto cast could mean any roll over a 4. Why not then resist on a 4? The wood elf sentinal song Eldar Madrigal can be resisted, just not through the use of will, but by passing a courage test. It can not be resisted through the use of will, apparently due to the fact that no will was used to "cast" the spell. They otherwise work "exactly like magical Powers". Whatever that means at that point, since they can not be resisted, are auto cast and do not require will....sure exactly like a magical power GW.....So it seems the sentinals song are very similar to thranduils crown, they are automatically cast and no will was used to cast them. So why would people assume that thranduils crown can be resisted on a 6 when it is also auto cast and no will was used to cast it? |
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Ok, for Sorcerous Blast for the sake of a good game I wouldn't argue either way as long as only the hero resists. Let's say it's a grey area. I would still ask to roll a dice just in case I can get some benefit from it though  As for why not resist on a 4 I can't argue with you either. Initially I thought it would be a good idea to do it on a 4, but it doesn't say that he casts it on a 4. The only certain thing is that all spells are resisted on a 6. The way I would rule it is to roll a dice and the result is the casting value. Whether it'll be 1 or a 6 it's still cast, but you have to resist that roll. They ruled it on a 6+ at the GT, but I wouldn't mind any other way as long as I knew well in advance. Finally Sentinel vs Thranduil... the key difference is that Eldamar Madrigal is nowhere near as powerful as an irresistable Nature's Wrath. Knocking down Wraiths on Fell Beasts and removing the beasts 'just like that' for 90 points is highly overpowered, especially when he's got better stats and Might than a captain for 60, so the rule itself costs maybe 15. Add to that the fact that a Sentinel has 1 wound and often dies to a random volley shot, while Thranduil has better defence, 2 wounds and fate. I guess if a Fell Beast isn't involved it is fine, but if it is then the spell is just way too powerful. |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thranduil's Crown and Resisting Spells |
Just because Elrond and Arwen cast Nature's Wrath on a 4+ doesn't mean every hero would, Gandalf the Grey and Evil Saruman cast SB on a 5+ whereas their more powerful versions cast it on a 4+. For SB vs NW, think of them as being magic (which they obviously are), so that would invlove one character exerting his will against another. His will is represented by Will being spent to cast it, if the character's will isn't sufficient (ie, he rolls a 2), then he didn't muster enough energy to cast the spell. If he rolls high and musters enough energy to cast it, he does. If the enemy can't resist it (ie he's just a new recruit with no experience) the spell works. If the target has Will (or if someone with Will is within range for NW), they have a battle of wills, so to speak. If they have a stronger will than the caster, they resist it and the spell disappears. If they don't resist it, the spell works. I only said all this to represent why the rules work how they do. Now for SB, the initial target is being hit by the casters will. If he can't resist it, then he is blasted away. If he hits someone, he is PHYSICALLY hitting them, so they can't try to avoid the person just by thinking about it, so they can't resist it. |
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