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Fate rolling sequence
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=23605		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rozinante [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Fate rolling sequence
Rules say that when a model receives a wound, he can "immediately" roll fate points. Sounds like the fate rolls have to be resolved then and there before moving on...correct? Can the opposing hero then add Might to a roll to cause another wound?

Here is the scene: Elrond vs Orc Capt with Shield. Elrond wins, rolls his 3 dice and scores 2 wounds. Orc Capt rolls for his Fate point, and with the help of all his Might points, makes it. He now has one wound left.

A) Can Elrond now use his Might to alter his third dice roll to make a third wound?
OR
B) must he have added the Might before Fate was resolved, just in case the Fate saved the wound?

I think A) is correct...
Author:  Shieldmaiden [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
In my experience, Might is resolved before Fate. So B) would be correct.
Author:  Farmer Maggot [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
I need to look it up, but we usually play B.
Author:  Pindergorn [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
(B). I'm pretty sure that Fate rolls are made after Wounds are determined. You can't change your mind and use Might to make an extra Wound after the Fate rolls have been successfully passed.

(A) Strikes me as unsporting, if not outright cheating. Telling your opponent that you don't wish to use Might to cause more wounds, only to change your mind after he successfully passes his Fate rolls. Your decision on how much Might to use will influence his decision on how much Fate to use - to make him base his decision on yours only to backtrack and say you now want to change your own decision is unfair.
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
I'll add another vote for B)
Author:  Rozinante [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
B) it is. Thanks guys.

So if I roll the Wound dice one at a time, then fate must be resolved with each wound as it comes... Then I won't have to gamble Might on the chance of his Fate working.
Author:  Elessar Telcontar [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
Rozinante wrote:
B) it is. Thanks guys.

So if I roll the Wound dice one at a time, then fate must be resolved with each wound as it comes... Then I won't have to gamble Might on the chance of his Fate working.

I play like this: Elrond wins a fight. He rolls 3 dice To Wound. After rolling those dice, he may use Might if he wishes. Then the Orc Captain can use Fate.
Author:  Rozinante [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
.[/quote]
I play like this: Elrond wins a fight. He rolls 3 dice To Wound. After rolling those dice, he may use Might if he wishes. Then the Orc Captain can use Fate.[/quote]

Is that the tournament norm? If I need to play the way, I will (of course)---but I'd like to know ahead of time. I'd rather avoid gambling with Might, if possible... Any rules to point to that might firm this up? "After all wounds are resolved..." kind of wording somewhere? Thanks.
Author:  hithero [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
Yes that is the rule played, roll all your Strike dice, use Might and then make Fate saves. Must admit the written rule does not spell it out very well, have never known anybody to play it any different though.
Author:  Ring_of_Gyges [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
I do it differently, I've always resolved each attack in turn. Imagine Boromir just won a fight against a Ringwraith with no Fate left (who he really wants to kill) and a pair of Orcs (which he might like to kill). I've been letting people assign one attack to the Wraith, resolve it completely, then resolve the next attack. Boromir only moves on to Orcs if he successfully kills the wraith.

If they're all rolled together he would have a tactical decision to make. Does he throw all three at the wraith because he's more important and risk overkill or split them and risk not killing the wraith? In the absence of a clear rule I think I may like it better your way as it adds an extra layer of decision making which is always good.

Now I go back and reread the rules, I don't see anything terribly clear one way or another.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
We've always played it A. It says you immediately roll for fate, so you cause 2 wounds, the orc immediately rolls his fate. If he saves it, you then decide whether to use might, if not, you saved yourself some might.
Author:  Rozinante [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:
I do it differently, I've always resolved each attack in turn. Imagine Boromir just won a fight against a Ringwraith with no Fate left (who he really wants to kill) and a pair of Orcs (which he might like to kill). I've been letting people assign one attack to the Wraith, resolve it completely, then resolve the next attack. Boromir only moves on to Orcs if he successfully kills the wraith. Now I go back and reread the rules, I don't see anything terribly clear one way or another.


Yes: "The player can roll for each strike before allocating the next if he prefers." (MoM pg 28; last sentence under Multiple Combats)

Also : "The wisest decision is of course to roll to wound with the two strikes from the first attack and then decide where to direct the next attack after seeing if the first Orc has been killed or not." (MofM pg 50 last sentence under Knock to the Ground)

This strongly implies--if not states--that wounds can be resolved one at a time 'if he prefers'. If the 'first Orc' were a Captain...then 'seeing if the first Orc has been killed or not" includes Fate point use...especially if the wounded hero has to "immediately expend one or more Fate points" (MoM pg 38 under Fate).

Seeing it this way, if the attacker has the legal option to see if he has killed the Orc Captian before moving on, scores the hit, kills him, moves to the next...then the Orc Captain can decide to use Fate..and save the wound...after the attacker has seen him killed...? That sounds wierd.

Sounds right that Might use is decided before Fate use, so B) is still correct. But it does sound like I can legally get around that by resolving one wound at a time, including Fate use,'and then decide where to direct the next attack.'

Important point, whether that wraith survives Boromir's attack. Boromir has that legal option to see if he's killed it or not...which seems to include Fate use.

Let's keep talking. I really appreciate this. Have I missed something?
Author:  Ring_of_Gyges [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
I missed those quotes when I had a quick look, but given those I think this way may be right

Step 1: Win the fight
Step 2: Declare target of however many strikes (or pairs of strikes if trapped) you prefer first strike and roll to wound.
Step 3: Spend might on the rolls if you like.
Step 4: Spend fate to stop it if you like.
Step 5: Only now move on to your second attack.

The advantage of allocating more than one strike at step 2 is you reduce the chance of wasting might, the disadvantage is the risk of overkill and wasting strikes.

Again, imagine Boromir is fighting a Wraith and two Orcs. He rolls his first strike against the wraith and gets a "2", does he want to spend four might and be sure or risk another attack. If he had allocated two strikes instead and gotten "2" & "6" he wouldn't need to spend any might. Still, if he had allocated two and gotten "6" & "6" he would have wasted an attack. I get this idea from the "if he prefers" language, meaning it's optional rather than mandatory.
Author:  Draugluin [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
All that means is that you ONLY roll 1 dice at step 2, then at step 5 only roll another die if you need to.
Author:  Rozinante [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:
Step 2: Declare target of however many strikes (or pairs of strikes if trapped) you prefer first strike and roll to wound.
Step 3: Spend might on the rolls if you like.
Step 4: Spend fate to stop it if you like.
Step 5: Only now move on to your second attack...


So, just for clarity: Boromir wins against Fell Beast and two Orcs. Declares target as Fell Beast, rolls one of his three Attacks. Rolls a five, decides to use a Might for a wound. Nazgul rolls a Fate, saves the wound. Now Boromir decides to roll his second of three Attacks again against FB, rolls a six! The Nazgul uses last Fate point, saves his wound again. Now Boromir says, "Too bad, no more attacks left over for Orcs: got to roll my last attack against this lucky Nazgul..."

A risk of wasting time, but better than wasting Might or wasting Wounds on overkill. All legal; anything missed?
Author:  Draugluin [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate rolling sequence
That's how I interpret it. Meaning that unless your opponent is a jerk, you can roll all the dice at once and use might after they roll fate. If they don't accept it, just waste the time to roll them one at a time.
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