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Cavalry and Spears
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24976		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  LordElrond [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Cavalry and Spears
Hi guys,
I'm thinking about converting some rotn to mounted versions, and have come up with a question that vitally needs to be answered beforehand:
is there any point taking spears on cavalry models?

Can they support while mounted?

Thanks,

LordElrond
Author:  SMORG [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
iirc they can't support
Author:  janner [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
The old LotR rulebook said that the spear armed figure could not support a friend with a bigger base size, it had to be the same size, or smaller (p. 42). This not included in the same section in The Hobbit rulebook (p.69). So, unless I've missed something, theoretically they can.

However, in both books, throwing spears cannot be used to fight in the fight phase - only thrown during the movement phase when charging (The Hobbit RB, p.71).

Still, the RotN and Dúndadan are listed as having a spear, but I can't see other lists with this option so looks like they messed up :twisted:

Still, a character who isn't in btb contact cannot use Heroic Combat. So it might be a bit of a waste to have them in a supporting role... One could also argue that they have not charged, as they are not in btb contact. They are supporting another figure's charge and can add a single attack, but not the +1 attack against infantry. :roll:
Author:  Elessar Telcontar [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
Yes, cavalry with spears can Support other models, and cavalry can be Supported by other models as that.

This was the case even before the Hobbit.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
Elessar Telcontar wrote:
Yes, cavalry with spears can Support other models, and cavalry can be Supported by other models as that.

This was the case even before the Hobbit.


No, it wasn't.

Cavalry cannot (in ORbook) support other models with spears. Cavalry, ca however be supported by spearmen providing the bases are large enough eg Cave Troll w/ spear supporting a Warg Rider.
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
So, can a cavalry model be supported by a cavalry model with a spear?

Yes or No?
Author:  hithero [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
No according to LOTR, don't know according to Hobbit as me frikkin book hasn't turned up yet. Do you not have the new rulebook?
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
Not yet. Under strict watch not to buy or do anything lotr related until my exams are over (Saturday). After that, I'll be getting the small version off eBay ASAP.
Author:  janner [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
LordElrond wrote:
So, can a cavalry model be supported by a cavalry model with a spear?

Yes or No?


I say 'yes' as I can find nothing under spears or cavalry to say otherwise. In both RBs cavalry with spears can seemingly support cavalry

Just check the references in my post above :-D

Happy to change my mind if anyone can provide a reference to the contrary 8)
Author:  Dreadknight [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
According to the New Hobbit rulebook they talk about a Model with Spear.

I do not know of any Cavalry models with spears. They either have Throwing Spear or Lance. If they have War Spear then that is Lance on horse back or Spear on Foot.

If you could find a Cavalry Model with Spear then technically there is nothing to stop that model supporting. I'm sure you might have found one I don't know about. However a FAQ might then come out saying they did not intend that model to have a Spear when mounted only on foot.
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
A mounted Ranger of the North.
Author:  janner [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
LordElrond wrote:
A mounted Ranger of the North.


and Halbarad Dúnadan
Author:  hithero [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
janner wrote:
LordElrond wrote:
So, can a cavalry model be supported by a cavalry model with a spear?

Yes or No?


I say 'yes' as I can find nothing under spears or cavalry to say otherwise. In both RBs cavalry with spears can seemingly support cavalry

Just check the references in my post above :-D

Happy to change my mind if anyone can provide a reference to the contrary 8)


What rules do you have? The first line of Spears on page 42 of LOTR says "... spear armed warrior on foot...."
Author:  janner [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
hithero wrote:

What rules do you have? The first line of Spears on page 42 of LOTR says "... spear armed warrior on foot...."


Thanks matey, missed the 'on foot'. It's been re-phrased in The Hobbit RB to a 'spear-armed model' and no mention that it has to be on foot now.
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
That's good, so we have agreed that the answer to my earlier question is yes?
Author:  The Horde Lord [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
Hi guys. Just read both the cavaly section and the spear section, and there is nothing preventing a spear armed cavalry model to support a someone else. They do not get any charge bonuses though, as charging is pretty clearly defined as "moving into base contact with".
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
Thank you very much for the confirmation
Author:  Elessar Telcontar [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
No, it wasn't.

Cavalry cannot (in ORbook) support other models with spears.

You're right, I'm sorry.
Author:  Dreadknight [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
The fact remains though that GW do not make any mounted Dunedain, Rangers of the North or Halbarad models. So you would have to convert one with a spear and a horse in order to do so. The sourcebook was written when the old LOTR rules where in use and you might find that after all that a FAQ Would come out to correct the inconsistency.
Author:  pownrwhopowns [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cavalry and Spears
does that mean monsters with spears can support infantry and strike at their strength/fight even though they can't be striked against?
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