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Question on Abrakhân Guard
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=25233		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Question on Abrakhân Guard
I’d like to start with a question as I haven't seen the new Fallen Realms Warband book. I'm not asking points or rules and really don't think this is crossing any lines. If there's concern just reply with a happy face if the answer is "yes" ( :D :-D :) :rofl: ) or an angry face if the answer to the question is "no" ( :x :-X )

Do Abrakhân Guard in SBG come with a 2H weapon and 1H weapon as part of their base wargear?

I'm working on a Harad list for this weekend. I WAS planning on a few Serpent Guard as my heavy infantry, since compared to standard Haradrim Warriors or even Warriors of Abrakhân they play good with the Poison Blades and a little better Fight. However, I was just looking at the Merchant Guard in army builder and am a bit surprised. Same points as the Serpent Guard and nearly every Profile stat is the same, but you get one higher Strength AND the Chop special rule, loosing Poisoned Blades (which only works if you happen to roll a ‘1’ anyway). A higher Strength and the ability to swing a 2H weapon without penalty is an amazing combo…that’s a bunch of cheap Gimli’s running around and would make short work of most foes. So I just wanted to make sure that they do include the 2H in their base cost and I'm not missing anything.

I have obviously never played SBG with these newer Harad profiles so is there actually any reason NOT to take Merchant Guard? Even if I was including the Betrayer, for example, to have increased poison rerolls for the Serpent Guard, from my experience being able to Wound a D6 opponent on a roll of 4+ (4 roll +1 2H bonus) is going to win the odds hands down. That’s basically a Cave Troll’s hitting power.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Abrakan guard do not need 1h weapons. Out of curiosity, why are you planning/ playing with an army you don't have the relevant sourcebook for?
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
SouthernDunedain wrote:
Abrakan guard do not need 1h weapons. Out of curiosity, why are you planning/ playing with an army you don't have the relevant sourcebook for?


He's probably using the army builder :)

Abrakahns do come with 2H weapons, they are great.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
SouthernDunedain wrote:
Abrakan guard do not need 1h weapons. Out of curiosity, why are you planning/ playing with an army you don't have the relevant sourcebook for?


Simply put, because I have already spent my money on all the OR era Journeybooks, Sourcebooks and LoME (not to mention the OR hardback, MoM set, WotR and Battlehosts), see the Warband books as far too much duplication of information (both duplication between the warband books themselves as well as the fact that the overwhelming majority of points and profiles are reprint from material I already paid for) and am already trying to save up my limited "hobby money" for an insultingly over priced new rule book that introduces only enough new rules that could have been summarized on a 3 page handout. The number of new profiles in the updated Fallen Realms book that carry any interest to me can be counted on one hand with enough fingers left over to hold an over priced GW-official paint brush.

< / rant off >

None of that directed at you personally, SouthernDunedain. Like many I have little enough time and money to put to a hobby to begin with to have much patience for GWs efforts to get me to spend it on information I have already paid for. If they wanted to charge a small subscription fee ( $25/year for example) to receive new profiles and warband updates as they are released then I would agree. Or maybe $25 for a LoME style book that would have pulled all the already published profiles into a single consolidated book listing all the warband compositions.

I have GW models from Mordor, Moria, Harad, Mirkwood and Lothlorien Elves, Dwarves, Rohan, and Gray Company. And I have official GW books covering each of them from SBG. It would take five Warband books to cover those forces officially and I'm simply not going to waste that money. I picked up one Warband book to give me the official rules for building and the generic scenarios as well as one set of lists (Free Peoples). It would cost me $100 to buy the others. I need to spend nearly that much on a new rule book that is about 80% waste from my perspective but they have us over a barrel on that one. I would much rather be buying their new models but as long as they press us to spend money on duplication of print I can't spend it somewhere else and THAT has me bitter. I want the new eagles. I would like to get the Grimhammers and Rivendell Knights. I'm already choking on the prices of these things but would be a lot more willing to save up and buy them if the company wasn't also putting out their other hand asking for $100 so I can play my current armies.
Author:  theavenger001 [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
They come with two handed weapons and hand weapons. (So you can support them if you want to....Though just thinking here, with the new hobbit rules you can support people using two handed weapons, so the guard can still have their strength 4, +1 to wound, and an extra support attack. So with the new rules there's no reason to ever use the normal hand weapon. Jeez, that's powerful.)
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
As avenger says, you should never use hand wapons. When using 2-handers, they have +1 to wound, no penalty to win, and can be supported. Thus, no reaosn to ever use hand weapons on them.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
But they do have a hand weapon in case floi gets them! How ever unlikely
Author:  Joansean [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
The SBG rules for the Abrakhan guard have been published in an official, legal and free online publication a few years back, which I have downloaded, also legally. You (and anyone interested in these and several others containing Rules for the Three Hunters, Elrond Master of Rivendell of the new Galadrihm) could pm me your email, and I can send you it, if interested.
Author:  Tezzy [ Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
There is reason to use their hand weapons: if you want to have access to two different melee strikes. For example give them two handed axes and then one handed hammers or something.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
The real reason they have a hand weapon is for spear support, surely?
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
In previous editions yes. But the rules for spear support have changed now so you can support a model with a 2h wep
Author:  cereal_theif [ Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Abrakhans guard can have their big sword for chop chop chopping.
Then the hand weapon is for the old rules.

p.s. anyone who gives abrakhan's guard axes is a douche!
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
cereal_theif wrote:
Abrakhans guard can have their big sword for chop chop chopping.
Then the hand weapon is for the old rules.

p.s. anyone who gives abrakhan's guard axes is a douche!


There should really be some sort of 33% axe limit (except for dwarfs).
Author:  Tezzy [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Frankly I think the different types of weapons should range from 0-1 points, with hammers and axes both being 1pt upgrades.

I guess the one good thing if GW makes a new rulebook every movie we get 2 more chances for them to balance axes :rofl:
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Tezzy wrote:
Frankly I think the different types of weapons should range from 0-1 points, with hammers and axes both being 1pt upgrades.

I guess the one good thing if GW makes a new rulebook every movie we get 2 more chances for them to balance axes :rofl:


Or they could just make it so models come with specific hand weapons that, no matter what conversion has taken place, has to act in that way. Also maybe they should beef up the other weapon moves, whips and flails would be great if they didn't lower your fight value, if anything whirling a whip above your head should lower your defence, and swinging a heavy ol' axe should nerf your fight value...
Author:  D0Cdeath [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Gothmog what did you mean when you said that 2 hand weapons have no penalty to win I thought they had a -1 when rolling to see who wins the fight ?.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Abrakhans have a special rule that allows them to ignore the penalty. If you had the sourcebook, you'd know that ;)
Author:  D0Cdeath [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
No I don't have that source book I only play good , just thought I'd missed something in the new hobbit rule book , shame though it would have been good for my dwarfs
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
I don't have a fallen realms army and I still have the book :roll:
Author:  D0Cdeath [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on Abrakhân Guard
Why?
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