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Help Please
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=25534		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Argeleb26 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Please
My friends and I recently started playing again after a short hiatus. We had a disagreement on some rules and I would like some help. When partaking in a battle with multiple combatants on each side, does it matter which character roles the highest score to determine a fight value win, or does it depend on which player has a character with a highest fight value on his side, regardless of what the individual characters rolled?

As an example (I know the question is confusing but this may help). My Balrog is teamed up with five goblins, fighting numerous mounted heroes. I don't mention them in name because the Balrog has a higher fight value than them all. My Balrog rolls 5,5,4,2 and my Goblin's roll include 6s. The mounted heroes roll some 6's. So does my side win, because we tied 6's and my side has the higher fight value ultimately, or do I lose because the heroes rolled 6's and my Balrog did not?

Also as a side question, does cavalry get the extra bonus attack when charging monstrous creatures?

Thanks
Author:  Thermo [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
When rolling the duel role, all the attacks are mucked in together so no need to track which model is rolling what at that time. The player with the highest dice role or highest fight value wins :)
Author:  Argeleb26 [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Thanks,

Thats what I thought, as seeing I had the Balrog.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
I had always gone the other way, the higher fight value character had to be the one to tie. But in re-reading that section of the Hobbit rules it's pretty clear I was wrong... Wish I had realized that before that misunderstanding has definately hurt me more times than not
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Thermo wrote:
When rolling the duel role, all the attacks are mucked in together so no need to track which model is rolling what at that time.


Not entirely true...it's true as far as determining who wins the Duel if there are only warriors involved, but if a hero wants to add Might he can only add to his own dice.

Cavalry charging monsters (but not other cavalry or monstrous mounts) get their bonus attack, but if the monster is S6 or more it is not knocked down.
Author:  JamesR [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Obviously I understand this representing the weight of numbers, and the rule is as presently defined to prevent confusion by excess exceptions, I do wish however there had to be an advantage in the number of attacks for this to carry through for example:

For this scenario lets assume I have the Watcher in the Water and I am fighting Boromir with his 'special standard' and a single warrior of Mt, and for the sake of simplicity
Boromir has expended all might.

Lets also assume that in the above instance Boromir epic fails and rolls straight 1's and his Warrior of Mt rolls a 6, and the Watcher also rolls a 6. By the GW rules Good wins the combat despite the Watcher having the advantage in attacks. The Warrior of Mt (as shown by his fight value) cannot go toe to toe with the Watcher but somehow he has been the deciding factor while Boromir has had all the effectiveness of tripping over his own feet on his way into the fight.

Again I understand simplicity of rules for 'ease of play' but in an instance like this Good really has no business winning, they can't even really claim strength in numbers as they have a combined total number of attack of 4 to the Watcher's 6.
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
And Boromir tripping over his own feet hid the fact that the WoMT was about to thrust his spear into the watcher's eye... :)

It's a game that models a statistical outcome, I'm not sure it's that useful to get too concerned about the specific die values. A 1 is the same as a 5 if it didn't win the fight. It's just a number that didn't win, not an indicator of degree of effectiveness.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Am I the only one not picking up on the fact that this should've been split into a number of smaller combats? Or has that changed in the Hobbit rules?

It's supposed to be broken into as many combats as possible, chosen by the player with priority.

On top of which, you need to roll separate dice for heroes due to Might and for anyone using a two-handed weapon due to the -1 penalty.

As for who wins in a draw, it doesn't matter which dice drew, just use the highest Fight value on either side.

If it seems peculiar that a Warrior of Minas Tirith uses Boromir's skill to win th fight, it's because the Warrior is using Boromir's tactical distraction or what-have-you.
Author:  Thermo [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Quote:
As for who wins in a draw, it doesn't matter which dice drew, just use the highest Fight value on either side.


That's what I meant :) but yes, separate dice in case you want to use might of hero/monster or different weapons etc.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Hashut's Blessing wrote:
Am I the only one not picking up on the fact that this should've been split into a number of smaller combats?


Nope...but you are geographically better positioned to post earlier. :rofl:

Hashut's Blessing wrote:
It's supposed to be broken into as many combats as possible, chosen by the player with priority.


It would be so hard to suggest a break up since we don't really know who charged who, but keep in mind you will NEVER have a situation of 2v2 or such in SBG. You will ALWAYS have the Fights broken up into 1vX, where X can be anything from 1 to as many models can be put into base contact. After all the charging is done and it is time to break up Fights (before Heroic Combat if any) the player with Priority should do so until everything has one and only one model on one side of the Fight vs. as many models as necessary / desired on the other.

If a model is touching one and only one enemy model those to MUST Fight. If a model is touching more than one then the player with Priority can decide which one it Fights, as long as it doesn't break the 1vX rule and you never leave someone not fighting.

Hashut's Blessing wrote:
On top of which, you need to roll separate dice for heroes due to Might and for anyone using a two-handed weapon due to the -1 penalty.


Absolutely. If you have any participants with special rules or options either roll them separately or else use different color dice for those. Either way though, it's still a 'pool' result for whoever has the highest die in the pool wins (or you get to the tie).
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Beowulf: On your second quote of me - that's exactly what I meant. You should have one side with just one person involved in every fight, regardless of who charged whom and in what order.
Author:  Bronf [ Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
can some one point out on what page this rule is? coz i'm sure that u just roll separate dice colour for differ fight value models :/ because it doesn't make sense to me other wise like jamesR are has explained seems the most legit way to resolve the fight
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Page 43: "...only consider the highest scoring dice and the highest Fight value on each side."

The only reason to roll different coloured dice is if there is a hero involved and you need to add Might, or if there are differences in equipment, like one of the warriors has a 2H weapon. The Might rules are on page 56.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Hashut's Blessing wrote:
Beowulf: On your second quote of me - that's exactly what I meant. You should have one side with just one person involved in every fight, regardless of who charged whom and in what order.


That's true assuming there are no supportting models with spears or pikes.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
For pedanticism's sake(also, pedanticism is now a word, lol :P ), there's still only one model in the fight on that side ;)
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