"Gollums" and shooting

Badner · **Joined:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:04 pm **Posts:** 296

Gollum on the big stone does count as one miniature so I can shoot at him even when I can only see the stone; is this right? Does this mean that there are "Gollums" which are bigger then "others"?

Thank you for your help

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:15 am

Scenery on a models base shouldn't count as in the way. So yeah, you could shoot him providing nothing else was obscuring him.

Badner · **Joined:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:04 pm **Posts:** 296

Okay, so that means that if I would like to play"extremely competitive" then I should always the smallest miniatures that is available?

LordElrond · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:53 am

No. You have to see gollum himself, not just the rock that he's standing on, because that's not him, it's just his base. And shooting the ground next to someone is never going to hurt anyone (unless it's with explosives or something).

Dikey · **Joined:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:19 am **Posts:** 508

I was thinking about the Gobrolg model (I don't even know if I spelled it right).
He is basically climbing on a column-thing. Now, do I have to pretend that he's dragging that thing around the battlefield? What if I turn the column to face the opponents: would it count as cover?

Now, to me this is just theory (I have no models who have an high base, even Gobrolg is a conversion of a regular goblin) but what is one supposed to do?

Frêrin · **Joined:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:50 pm **Posts:** 272

If you are not sure if there is los take an other model with the same size and an upright posture and swap them.

Badner · **Joined:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:04 pm **Posts:** 296

LordElrond wrote:

No. You have to see gollum himself, not just the rock that he's standing on, because that's not him, it's just his base. And shooting the ground next to someone is never going to hurt anyone (unless it's with explosives or something).

Well this would mean that I can use Gollum on the big stone and simply turn the stone in the direction of the opponent's shooters and they would not be able to shoot at him.
Link to a picture of the Gollum I am taking about: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tooshy/ ... m.jpg.html

Groblog has the same problem. The old fellbeast was standing on a wall, does this wall count as cover?

Rozinante · **Joined:** Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:16 pm **Posts:** 215

No model comes equipped with In The Way cover. For Line Of Sight, if your opponents model can 'see' your model from base to top - with nothing obscuring that--then Gullom can be seen, even if spinning the rock might hide Gollum himself. Not even a question with any other model I can think of.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

The scenery on a model's base never counts as In The Way - this is a good thing, otherwise, filthy players could build fences around all of their models and have them completely obscured.

However, SBG uses true LOS. According to the rules, if you can only see the Rock then you can't see Gollum and you can't shoot at him. Similarly, Groblog being up on that column does give him the disadvantage that he's easier to see. He does not 'count' as if he's on the ground, he is where he is. This leads to some competitive players cutting him off the column and putting him on the ground.

That's the rules as written. However, thankfully most people are a little more lenient with this, and will often play that Groblog 'counts' as being the height of a normal goblin, most reasonable players would agree with this.

However, the reality is that this is one of those rules queries that people feel very passionate about but rarely has any effect. I've played loads of games against Gollum and never had the situation where I can only see his rock. Similarly, I've never been in a situation where I could ONLY see Groblog because of his rock, there's normally a LOS through to some part of his rock (i.e. where he WOULD be standing if he were on the ground) so it's not an issue. I think this issue gets theorised about far more than it actually comes up in game.

I go to an awful lot of tournaments with highly competitive players and I've never been frustrated by this issue in a game, the angles simply haven't lined up to make it a problem and they rarely will.

I modelled my eagles onto the top of trees because they looked cool and it represents the end of An Unexpected Journey. It means that they will almost never benefit from ITW tests but I'm alright with that because they're my models and I like the way they look. Ultimately, it's your hobby, you have to choose how you want to play it, my advice would be that these are expensive models and that you should choose the poses that you like the most and pose your models in the way that you think looks coolest and will most inspire you to paint them well. How they will perform in the game never has the slightest bearing in how I paint/model my miniatures and I find that's the healthiest attitude to have.

Badner · **Joined:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:04 pm **Posts:** 296

I think you are right. I am asking this question because I really love the Gollum I linked and thought about buying it on eBay. However, I wanted to know how to use it in the game.
You said that a model is where it is and does not count as being somewhere else. Groblog is on top of the stone, so normally you can see some parts of him. But Gollum is on one side of the stone, so I thought that there can be a situation in which Gollum is hidden behind his stone; does that mean that I could turn him so that you can't shoot at him? ( This situation is very difficult to describe because I don't have the miniature and I am not a native speaker).

Does anyone have a picture of Gollum from behind him? Can you see some parts of him when you are on the eye level of a normal bowman?

Thank you for your help, I hope you understand what I mean.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

Yes, I understand what you mean, don't worry, you're quite clear.

In short, no you couldn't do that. the scenery on a model's base does not count as obscuring it. It's a great model and very evocative but anyone who was turning the model around and then advancing towards the enemy claiming he couldn't be shot at would very quickly be told to stop by a TO.

It's a great model and one that I'm keen to add to my collection, get it, paint it and then point it at the enemy so everyone can see how cool it is! :-)

Badner · **Joined:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:04 pm **Posts:** 296

Okay, thank you for the clarification.

So this means that the best way of dealing with LOS is to simply turn Gollum so he faces the guy who wants to shoot at him?

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:01 pm

It doesn't really matter which way he faces. I'd say if the stone is visible then they can shoot at Gollum.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:43 am

I would just completely avoid the situation by not using that model. If it does block LoS, you'll make enemies because of him. If it doesn't, then you lose every advantage of the smaller models. As for Groblog, I can't think of any situation where the pillar actually would block LoS. I definitely have never played him like that, and I usually keep him back far enough so he can't get shot. His support rules are way to valuable.

"Gollums" and shooting

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