The One Ring :: View topic - Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?

You never even cast a spell , you died before you had the chance , who in there right mind charges prince imrahil on armoured horse with lance as well as a mounted KoDa .... Rookie!!
Maybe if you join forces with storm crow you could last 3 rounds instead of just 2.

Khamul is not the wraith for hte job.
Knight of umbar
Undying
Witchking

Betrayer
and now
Dwimmerlek

are all better on a beast

The problem with Khamul is that 2 of his improvements are useless if you are riding a Fell Beast, no point upping strength by one because you use the Fell a beasts Strength. Also no point upping his Attacks, because you are already using the 2 attacks of the fell beast. So the only one you could use is upping his fight and that's it. That's why I'm not so sure that Khamul is that good when you have him ride a Fell Beast. I must admit the mistake of not calling Transfix on Imrahil. I never charged Imrahil, just one of his fellow KODA, only to have the prince counter charge and kill me. Lessen learned the hard way eh? We haven't played the new rules yet, I have ordered a hobbit book and I'm still waiting for it to come, looking forward to using the new rules for monsters.

Since he uses the fell beasts attacks, you can boost the attacks of the fell beast itself. Least ways, that's what I think.

Reasons against Khamul
- you cant up the fellbeast's stats only those of Khamul. Please read the rules guys.
- he only has 12 will
- he has no really cool rules compared to above
- he is a rubbish magician if you need a caster.

cereal_theif wrote:

You don't have to be a jerk about it. It wasn't even in the rules that they cleared it up, it was in the Mordor FAQ, which I had never checked before because i don't have a Mordor army. The point remains that even if he has 12 Will, he REGAINS will every single time he wounds someone, so while the Undying can be in 20 fights, Khamul can stay around as long as he keeps winning and wounding.

Author:	Jazlotus [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
We play 750 point games,would playing say 3 be just too many points? And which 3 would you play against a Gondor themed army?

Author:	cereal_theif [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
I would usually go for 1 or 2 if on fellbeasts. I used to field 2 in my (pre warbands) harad army. I had shadowlord and witchking (With crown) both mounted. I find its up to you to find the synergy you need. If you are fielding 2 wraiths at 750 you are not having much in the way of elites or strong heroes besides them. I love the witchking on horse with plenty of will n 2 might 2 fate with undying on fellbeast can be a good combo. Witchking is there as a caster and the undying can go fighting or casting but getting will back when the witchking casts. But if you did that you are looking at an orc and goblin army with mostly cheap n chearful dudes. Maybe a shaman to add to the will pool. I think double/tripled named wraith is more of a 1000pt thing... but maybe someone else has a plan

Author:	Jazlotus [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
I'm a bit of a rookie with playing the Ring Wraiths, but would love to play them more. I just seem to get them killed too easily. Probably get caught up in the game sometimes and never cast the right spell at the right time.

Author:	D0Cdeath [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
You never even cast a spell , you died before you had the chance , who in there right mind charges prince imrahil on armoured horse with lance as well as a mounted KoDa .... Rookie!! Maybe if you join forces with storm crow you could last 3 rounds instead of just 2.

Author:	Jazlotus [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Stupid prince imrahil!!! You will pay Doc Death, you will pay.............. When someone tells me how to do it with my Fell beast haha

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Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points? http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22362	Page 6 of 7

Author:	Jazlotus [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Hay you Doc Death.... Sick to your goody good good forums, stop looking into our evil chats over here.

Author:	SouthernDunedain [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
D0Cdeath wrote: You never even cast a spell , you died before you had the chance , who in there right mind charges prince imrahil on armoured horse with lance as well as a mounted KoDa .... Rookie!! Maybe if you join forces with storm crow you could last 3 rounds instead of just 2. Lets see...everyone who has ever faced the young prince. If Imrahil charges he gets his extra attack bonus and the bonus for charging with a lance. This makes him deadly. Same applies to his mounted kin. What your friend did was right, albeit probably bit off more than he could chew. I always charge cavalry as fellbeats can knock them over but always restrict the amount of cavalry that can counter charge me. If you are going hero hunting, cast transfix etc on him and if you can channel said spell. I would keep the fellbeast 'safe' behind your lines and use it to charge the flanks. Never charge if you have moved first. This allows your enemy to counter charge. Make use of the new brutal power attacks (rend, throw and barge). A timely throw can nullify a whole line of spear support if you are lucky. If you are using Khamul, make sure you make use of his spec rule to bump up his attacks or FV. strength isnt worth it as you would still use the fellbeasts anyway. Hope this helps.

Author:	Jazlotus [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
The problem with Khamul is that 2 of his improvements are useless if you are riding a Fell Beast, no point upping strength by one because you use the Fell a beasts Strength. Also no point upping his Attacks, because you are already using the 2 attacks of the fell beast. So the only one you could use is upping his fight and that's it. That's why I'm not so sure that Khamul is that good when you have him ride a Fell Beast. I must admit the mistake of not calling Transfix on Imrahil. I never charged Imrahil, just one of his fellow KODA, only to have the prince counter charge and kill me. Lessen learned the hard way eh? We haven't played the new rules yet, I have ordered a hobbit book and I'm still waiting for it to come, looking forward to using the new rules for monsters.

Author:	cereal_theif [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Khamul is not the wraith for hte job. Knight of umbar Undying Witchking Betrayer and now Dwimmerlek are all better on a beast

Author:	Jazlotus [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
cereal_theif wrote: Khamul is not the wraith for hte job. Knight of umbar Undying Witchking Betrayer and now Dwimmerlek are all better on a beast Interesting!!! Could you list the top 4 wraiths to use on a Fell Beast and the reason why? Because people seem to say that Khamul is the best.

Author:	Draugluin [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Jazlotus wrote: The problem with Khamul is that 2 of his improvements are useless if you are riding a Fell Beast, no point upping strength by one because you use the Fell a beasts Strength. Also no point upping his Attacks, because you are already using the 2 attacks of the fell beast. So the only one you could use is upping his fight and that's it. That's why I'm not so sure that Khamul is that good when you have him ride a Fell Beast. I must admit the mistake of not calling Transfix on Imrahil. I never charged Imrahil, just one of his fellow KODA, only to have the prince counter charge and kill me. Lessen learned the hard way eh? We haven't played the new rules yet, I have ordered a hobbit book and I'm still waiting for it to come, looking forward to using the new rules for monsters. I don't see why you wouldn't up his attacks. More attacks=better chance to win=better chance to regain will.

Author:	Jazlotus [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Because you can't use the attacks of the wraith and Fell Beast added together. You use one or the other. Khamul has 1 attack which can be boosted to 2. But the Fell Beast has 2 anyway, so in other words, pointless to boost.

Author:	Draugluin [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Since he uses the fell beasts attacks, you can boost the attacks of the fell beast itself. Least ways, that's what I think.

Author:	Jazlotus [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Draugluin wrote: Since he uses the fell beasts attacks, you can boost the attacks of the fell beast itself. Least ways, that's what I think. Are you sure you can do that? Don't think you can.

Author:	cereal_theif [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Dwimmerlek was out of favour due to LAME pose and the lack of heroes pre warbands. Now warbands is settled Dwimmerlek got better. THEN Heroic strike appeared... and Dwimmerlek got EVEN better because more monsters means less heroic combats but more heroic strikes vs monsters... Stopping a heroic combat was useful but stoping a heroic strike can lead to the death of a hero.

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Author:	cereal_theif [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Knight of umbar - can match any hero or monster for might will fate if he is being out done... then use your might (of which he has 3) to do a heroic strike if needed. So if you come against imrahil you can mimic his attacks and then do your business on his head even if he charges you. Undying -20 will = 20 fights you can do... or 20 fate... or 20 casts. Even better if with another wraith as he regains will Witchking - high will, fate, might potentil. High fight, break staff if you are worried about wizards Betrayer - reroll failed wounds. So heroic combats vs troops is even more effective. and now Dwimmerlek - people won't want to heroic strike vs a hero who forces them to use TWO might to do so. Reasons against Khamul - you cant up the fellbeast's stats only those of Khamul. Please read the rules guys. - he only has 12 will - he has no really cool rules compared to above - he is a rubbish magician if you need a caster.

Author:	Jazlotus [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Yeah Thanx C-Thief, agree about Khamul, don't understand why everyone raves about him. Why "and now" the Dwimmerlek? Has something changed with him? So if your gonna play 2 wraiths, the Undying alongside either KoU or Witch King looks like the best.

Author:	Draugluin [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
cereal_theif wrote: Reasons against Khamul - you cant up the fellbeast's stats only those of Khamul. Please read the rules guys. - he only has 12 will - he has no really cool rules compared to above - he is a rubbish magician if you need a caster. You don't have to be a jerk about it. It wasn't even in the rules that they cleared it up, it was in the Mordor FAQ, which I had never checked before because i don't have a Mordor army. The point remains that even if he has 12 Will, he REGAINS will every single time he wounds someone, so while the Undying can be in 20 fights, Khamul can stay around as long as he keeps winning and wounding.

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nazgul armies in SBG - viability? and at what points?
Draugluin wrote: cereal_theif wrote: Reasons against Khamul - you cant up the fellbeast's stats only those of Khamul. Please read the rules guys. - he only has 12 will - he has no really cool rules compared to above - he is a rubbish magician if you need a caster. You don't have to be a jerk about it. It wasn't even in the rules that they cleared it up, it was in the Mordor FAQ, which I had never checked before because i don't have a Mordor army. The point remains that even if he has 12 Will, he REGAINS will every single time he wounds someone, so while the Undying can be in 20 fights, Khamul can stay around as long as he keeps winning and wounding. The Undying can be in more than 20 fights if other casters are invlved. I agree that the Undying is better. After the FAQ I don't see the point of ever tking him in fell beast.