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Underdog tactical challenge?
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26211		 Page 4 of 5
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Bilbo wrote:
The Shire with no fight or strength values above 3, no magic and frankly nothing seriously destructive has got to be the main contender.

You think Elves are good shots and Hobbits are weak?
47 thrown stones and 20 arrows will kill, on average, 14.89 Wood Elves. In a single turn. And that's the firepower of 500pts of Hobbits...
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
But if your opponent is dumb enough to let you get that close to his wood elves, they deserve to die. The stones have what, 8" range? And they can't move and shoot, so those wood elves would have 6-7 turns of shooting before the hobbits got within range. Wood Elf archers with elven cloaks would be able to destroy much more than their points worth of hobbits.
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
20 of the shots are with bows, it's not just those stones. Elves will probably have half that amount of long-range shots. Elven daggers? 6" range, so Hobbit win there. Few people take cloaks on Elves by the way, aside from heroes. At any rate, 67 figures in 500pts is simply massive, that they have any quality at all is astonishing. Definitely not the weakest army out there.. in as much as such a rabble can be called 'army'!
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Those 20 archers would be the first to go. Not saying that the shire is underpowered at 500 pts, but seeing as the very highest they can go is ~700 pts, they completely lose out because you can't use a fully hobbit army in a high point game.
Author:  LordElrond [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
You get Gandalf and Malbeth and then nobody can die!
Author:  Bilbo [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
black1blade wrote:
But the shire can get something like 78 thrown stones attack per go.


Actually it cant, there are 5 heroes from the Shire that can lead troops (up to 12 per leader), as well as 3 heroes that can't lead troops. This means that the Shire can field legally a maximum of 68 models, which is a massive limitation! Also there are going to be practically zero occasions where all of the 68 Hobbits are going to be in a position to all throw stones together or much at all after the enemy are within 8". A strength of 1 will get you get you the occasional rare kill, but is literally the most under powered shooting weapon in the game. I wouldn't want to put them up against High Elf archers who will hit them on a 3+ from 24" away, and require a 4+ to kill, which also have the advantage of being able to advance int range, and retreat at an at a half pace which for them is is a greater distance due to the elves speed of 6or 3 if they wish to fire compared to the Hobbits 4" and 2")then requiring a 4+ to hit and kill as they go.
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Bandobras Took can lead Shire troops as well now, so that's one more warband.
Of course, those stones aren't very strong - but they are effectively free, and the huge potential quantity is worth something as well (in a 500pts army, the High Elves will only have 8 shots or so). Wounding on the same numbers as normal bows against D3 and D5 too. And at 700pts, they can bring the same army, with Blinding Light-supplying Gandalf. Themed allies available in the form of Arnor, bringing even more shots...
Author:  Bilbo [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Bandobras Took can lead Shire troops as well now, so that's one more warband.
Of course, those stones aren't very strong - but they are effectively free, and the huge potential quantity is worth something as well (in a 500pts army, the High Elves will only have 8 shots or so). Wounding on the same numbers as normal bows against D3 and D5 too. And at 700pts, they can bring the same army, with Blinding Light-supplying Gandalf. Themed allies available in the form of Arnor, bringing even more shots...



Sound tactics but Gandalf is not part of the Shire list, also I can't find any mention of Bandobrast, though he has every right to be o the list in the Free Peoples supplement.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
They FAQd it bilbo so he could lead the shire ;)
Author:  Bilbo [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Great, it would be silly if he couldn't!
Author:  Dr Grant [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
AND WE HAVE A NEW WINNER!!! THE ARMY OF LAKETOWN!!!

Perfectly average men who are as cowardly as Arnor but without the armour and who haven't yet developed shields! Led by generic captains and 2 weaponless named heroes, one of whom can burn Might to make your awful troops a bit better and the other of whom can restore his Might so he can do it again! :lol:

Granted Bard's an absolute beast but he's not gonna be winning games on his own! :-D
Author:  Bilbo [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Generally I would agree with you but I suspect the Master of Lake Town and Alfred can get the best out of them.
Author:  black1blade [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Not trying to ask for points, but are they similar to WoR in point value.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
No!
Imagine humans but at a similar price to goblins.

Laketown are a great ally. 92pts gets you alfred and 12 spearmen. That is serious numbers when you think about it. 800+pts just chuck that warband in to up your numbers
Author:  LordElrond [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
They are orcs for good, but ones who can't take any equipment.
Author:  black1blade [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
So elves got stronger and men got weaker.
Author:  LordElrond [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Yes, essentially, but now men have a spam troop. Who can be led by some amazing heroes or rubbishy captains
Author:  Dr Grant [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
cereal_theif wrote:
Laketown are a great ally. 92pts gets you alfred and 12 spearmen. That is serious numbers when you think about it. 800+pts just chuck that warband in to up your numbers


Oh come now Owen, this thread isn't about discussing the INEVITABLE tournament cheese that will turn up next year :shock: It's about looking at each faction on their own and saying who's the weakest.

There's no doubt that Alfred will be hella handy if allied into another army where his filthy rule will come to the fore. However, could an exclusive army of Laketown beat many other exclusive factions? I think not.

GW's most popular model ever maybe?!?!? :-D
Author:  cereal_theif [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
Except you are looking at somewhere like 5million models in a 500pt list?

500pts
Alfred
Master of Lake Town
4 captains (or 3 captains and bows n spears all over the place)
30 dudes with spear (or bow)
29 dudes with nowt.

Master of Lake Town makes people F4 if needed and alfred gives him more might back.

It might not have punch but it has numbers like crazy
Author:  black1blade [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Underdog tactical challenge?
All for the thrilling price of £25 for 10 models. :lol:
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