The One Ring :: View topic - Light and heavy cavalry

Good ideas gaarew! :yay:

Seeing as Rohan are meant to be the best horse masters (except perhaps for Elves) though it would fit that they would have the option of both light and heavy cavalry, so perhaps the Royal Guard would count as h.cavalry? Just a thought.

(And also extra bonuses for all mounted Rohirrim - higher fight value?).

With Riders of Rohan, it's entirely possible to just give them the FV of 4 as that has been included in WotR.

Grrr.... stoopid button.

@hithero: I thought about monstrous mounts, but figured an Easterling kataphract should still be bowled over by the Spider Queen.

Surely even If they did move as slow as ponies, they wouldn't be getting the normal charging bonuses because they're so slow. Infantry don't get charging bonuses, so why should Cavalry that move just 2 inches more?

I've been toying with the idea too, not with LOTR but my Rome V Celt adaptation.

Have you considered leaving heavy cavalry as is, and changing how light cavalry works instead?

I've probably overlooked something, and I don't know if you'd want to include models that are classes as cavalry, such as Giant Spiders, or if you want to limit it to standard mount and rider models.

You could always apply a sliding scale.

Infantry model<non-mounted 'Cavalry mode' (Giant Spider, Warg)<Light Cavalry<Heavy Cavalry<Monstrous Mount,

So that the charger gets the bonuses against all opponents lower than them.

Author:	whafrog [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Light and heavy cavalry
IMHO the game doesn't distinguish between light and heavy cavalry. Historically light (unarmoured) horse would want to face heavy horse about as much as infantry would...which is to say, not at all. And heavy horse would be considerably slower. Light cavalry: no armour, move 10"/24cm, charge rules as current. Heavy (armoured) cavalry: armour, move 8"/20cm. - When charging, get +1 to the fight roll - Knockdown still only applies to infantry. - Counter-charges by heavy cavalry mitigate this as normal. - Counter-charges by light cavalry remove the +1 to fight bonus, but not the extra attack or knockdown of infantry - Heavy cavalry cost +3 points for warriors, +10 points for heroes. Comments? I'm not sure about the +1 to fight roll, maybe +2 attacks is better...something to represent them bowling over everything in their path. If it's +2 attacks, then being counter-charged by light cavalry reduces this to +1 attack.

Author:	Angrok [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:
I like the idea of distinguishing them but I am not sure how to best do it and keep things simple. Right now Heavy Cavalry is pretty good but mostly because they are harder to bring down at range. Certainly a reduction in speed is in order. The +1 attack when charging may be an option. Alternatively... perhaps just outright give all heavy cavalry in the game a +1 attack in their profile. However, this will push all of their cost up a bit despite moving slower.

Author:	hithero [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:
I've been toying with the idea too, not with LOTR but my Rome V Celt adaptation. We have recently fielded a unit of heavily armoured cataphracts (D6 horse armour) and agree with the 8" move. We haven't messed with horse v heavy horse combats yet and your methods appear to be to involved, not streamline enough for LOTR. How about heavily armoured riders on barded horses (really heavy cavalry) just count as monstrous mounts when charging? A light cavalry mount will be just as likely to be bowled over by something with twice its mass as an infantryman.

Author:	King Elessar the Uniter [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Good ideas!
I like your ideas! Though I think I would agree with the higher number of attacks than the higher fight value. The monstrous mounts idea is a good one too, but it could put the points cost up a lot!

Author:	Haradrim Raider [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm sure horses would be slower, yet ur saying that an Armoured Horse would move the same as a pony. As for the other rules, I think they look really cool.

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Author:	gaarew [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Have you considered leaving heavy cavalry as is, and changing how light cavalry works instead? Would this be any easier? Or might it be an idea to completely re-write how cavalry works, and make a distinctive definition of what constitutes light and heavy cavalry? Light - Riders of Rohan Outriders Warg Riders Khandish Mercenaries Haradrim Raiders Mounted Ranger of the North Heavy - Knights of Minas Tirith Rohan Royal Guard (thanks!) Swan Knights of Dol Amroth Morgul Knights Easterling Kataphracts Mahud Raiders (possibly with some sort of Courage penalty for nearby horses) Serpent Riders Misc/Potential - Warg Giant Spider Mounted Heroes Riders of the Dead I've probably overlooked something, and I don't know if you'd want to include models that are classes as cavalry, such as Giant Spiders, or if you want to limit it to standard mount and rider models.

Author:	whafrog [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:
@hithero: I thought about monstrous mounts, but figured an Easterling kataphract should still be bowled over by the Spider Queen. @Haradrim Raider: yes, I think so. Armour weighs a lot, and horses that are big enough to carry it don't tend to be speedy.

Author:	gaarew [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rohirrim!
King Elessar the Uniter wrote: Good ideas gaarew! Seeing as Rohan are meant to be the best horse masters (except perhaps for Elves) though it would fit that they would have the option of both light and heavy cavalry, so perhaps the Royal Guard would count as h.cavalry? Just a thought. (And also extra bonuses for all mounted Rohirrim - higher fight value?). I knew I'd missed something... Thanks. Well, there is also Elven and Dunlending cavalry to think about, and, potentially Chariots if the rules are being re-written. With Riders of Rohan, it's entirely possible to just give them the FV of 4 as that has been included in WotR.

Author:	gaarew [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rohirrim!
Grrr.... stoopid button.

Author:	Haradrim Raider [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Surely even If they did move as slow as ponies, they wouldn't be getting the normal charging bonuses because they're so slow. Infantry don't get charging bonuses, so why should Cavalry that move just 2 inches more?

Author:	hithero [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:
whafrog wrote: @hithero: I thought about monstrous mounts, but figured an Easterling kataphract should still be bowled over by the Spider Queen. They still would be, like many other beasties they only count as MM when charging, if charged by a The Spider Queen they will be knocked over.

Author:	hithero [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Haradrim Raider wrote: Surely even If they did move as slow as ponies, they wouldn't be getting the normal charging bonuses because they're so slow. Infantry don't get charging bonuses, so why should Cavalry that move just 2 inches more? Because its the weight of the charge and not just the speed, half a ton of armoured horse will knock you over even just walking, let alone at a canter - ask your science teacher

Author:	whafrog [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:
hithero wrote: I've been toying with the idea too, not with LOTR but my Rome V Celt adaptation. About this adaptation, are you using SBG rules for Romans and Celts? If so, feel like sharing? I have a friend who really likes these rules, but prefers to game with early renaissance, like Polish Hussars and Cossacks, etc. Let me know if you feel like starting a new thread on a different board.

Author:	whafrog [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:
gaarew wrote: Have you considered leaving heavy cavalry as is, and changing how light cavalry works instead? I've thought cavalry was slightly underpowered to begin with, so I'd rather give heavy cavalry a boost. Quote: I've probably overlooked something, and I don't know if you'd want to include models that are classes as cavalry, such as Giant Spiders, or if you want to limit it to standard mount and rider models. I like your categories. I always thought Wild Wargs should get the (light) cavalry charge bonus, not sure about RoD and spiders. As for heroes, the heavy/light definition depends on what they're riding. An armoured horse would cost 25 with these rules instead of 15.

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Author:	gaarew [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:
You could always apply a sliding scale. Infantry model<non-mounted 'Cavalry mode' (Giant Spider, Warg)<Light Cavalry<Heavy Cavalry<Monstrous Mount, So that the charger gets the bonuses against all opponents lower than them.

Author:	King Elessar the Uniter [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Good Idea!
gaarew wrote: You could always apply a sliding scale. Infantry model<non-mounted 'Cavalry mode' (Giant Spider, Warg)<Light Cavalry<Heavy Cavalry<Monstrous Mount, So that the charger gets the bonuses against all opponents lower than them. That's an interesting idea!

Author:	whafrog [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:
gaarew wrote: You could always apply a sliding scale. Infantry model<non-mounted 'Cavalry mode' (Giant Spider, Warg)<Light Cavalry<Heavy Cavalry<Monstrous Mount, So that the charger gets the bonuses against all opponents lower than them. I like that, then the basic rules don't change, only the determination of whether a counter-charge mitigates it. Still... "Eventually Longshanks will bring his whole northern army against us." "Heavy horse...shake the very ground..."