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Do fighty heroes have a place in a competitive list?
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14851		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Monkeyboy1989 [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Do fighty heroes have a place in a competitive list?
My question is in the title, but it needs some elaboration, by fighty characters I don't mean 2 attack secondary heroes, I mean Boromir or gondor and Glorfindel lord of the west. These are the characters who's cost is a much thought about investment, characters who you won't see in games less than 500 points. Do they have a place in a competitive setting, a setting where a ringwraith can shut them down for a turn or two without breaking a sweat?

Thanks in advance.
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well it would alld epend on how you use them and how your protect them, although it is inevitable that a Rigwraith can easily bust your 3's uber hero and that 100-150 pts is wasted for about 4-6 will points?

But if you manage to protect them or shade them from a rigwraith then they should do fine, I recall a situation when I ha Aragorn with the Dead and GC and my opponent had uruks and Saruman, and I did a heroic fight woith aragorn and i broke into the second line, in the priority phase i lost the roll but made a heroic move and charged Saruman With Aragorn, and as you can expect the fight was pretty nastuy for my opponent :rofl:


But well Glorfindel Lord Of the West is resistant to magic so he is the hardest uber hero to stop, as any magi cast at him can be resisted as if he had an immerse amount of will :rofl:
Author:  Monkeyboy1989 [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Resistant to magic DUH!! I actually posted this topic because I was trying to decide if Glorfindel Lord of the West was worth it.

To be fair I was thinking of this in a vacuum, Spell casters are usually behind the lines away from the fighting, easy prey for my assassin squad (riders of rohan or 5 highelves with elven blades) I was completely forgetting other factors.

Thanks for the reply.
Author:  hithero [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
They are a risk as they can be easily neatralised by a wraith but can be awesome if they don't meet one - its luck of the draw really.
Author:  Locust Scar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:52 am ]
Post subject: 
I find the problem with uber heroes is that I usually play Mordor or Harad, and if I use an uber hero then I don't have enough troops, which takes out the strength of my army. Not that Harad and Mordor have crazy uber heroes anyway... :(
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Locust Scar wrote:
I find the problem with uber heroes is that I usually play Mordor or Harad, and if I use an uber hero then I don't have enough troops, which takes out the strength of my army. Not that Harad and Mordor have crazy uber heroes anyway... :(


Are you kidding? I played Mordor and could fit in Shagrat, War Leader and Gorbag AND a Drummer and still have 45-50 models.
Author:  Locust Scar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay fine, but Suladan and Dalamyr are the only uber heroes that Harad have.
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Locust Scar wrote:
Okay fine, but Suladan and Dalamyr are the only uber heroes that Harad have.


If Dalamyr is uber then Hasharin should be too... Those smoke bombs and 10 points are all that separate the two. And don't forget those Mahud Heroes! :o
Author:  General Haar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Actually, Mordor/Harad have some of the best uber heroes.
Suladan is amazing for his points. Hasharin and Dalamyr are great, only suffering from low Might/defense. They may not have F6, but they can run through most troops easily (3A + spear support).
You can get Suladan on a horse with a bow, a chieftain, 6 raiders with bows, and then pure troops. 50 models, 500 points, awesome hero and cavalry. That's painful.

But as for good, yeah, Wraiths are incredibly nasty, and since a hero takes up most of your points, you'll likely be outnumbered, too. If they go unopposed, they're near impossible to stop. If you can still get good numbers and versatility in your list, then a fighty hero will do great. Even if a wraith is against you, they won't always succeed their rolls, and if you're not surrounded and up against normal troops, you'll probably live against a transfix, and hopefully you won't break to where Drain Courage is an issue (Change your tactics to surviving; shielding, etc. until your hero does his damage).

I prefer smaller heroes and more elite troops, but there's definitely room for some fighty heroes in competitive lists. However, HUGE points sinks like Boromir, CotWT and King Elessar might be risking it.
Author:  King Under the Mountain [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:14 am ]
Post subject: 
At a 500 points level? Well, that very much depends on the army.

There's a few ways I classify "uber" heroes being effective in armies:

1) God-like being and minions. Classic examples include Aragorn the King, Sauron sans the Ring, and a couple others of their ilk.

2) 200 point model backed up by normals. My friend built a very effective 500 point Gondor force consisting of Boromir with the Banner and nothing but Warriors and Knights. Numbers and power.

3) Not so uber hero with elites. Imrahil and the Swan Knights of Dol Amroth spring to mind. 135 (155 with full gear) points is very affordable, and hits like a ton of bricks when backed up by SKoDA.
Author:  General Haar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Boromir with the banner and then just men? Assuming 5-6 knights, that puts his model range at or around 30. One hero and then run of the mill troops doesn't strike me as particularly balanced or effective.

Imrahil is great, though. Even if he is transfixed, he counts as a banner to his men, so he's not useless. I had Faramir transfixed for all but two rounds of combat. He did nothing, but the F4 he gave the Veterans was key.
Author:  Phantom_Lord [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:25 am ]
Post subject: 
i agree that there defenitly is room for 100-150 point fighty heroes in a 500 point list, just try not to spent more then 1/3 of your points on your hero 8)
Author:  grimbog [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with most of what's been said here, even though personally i prefer a mid level hero and captain to spread my heroic abilities about a bit, i can see how Imrahil or another fighty hero can be worth while, especially when mounted, a good charge can decimate even the toughest if basic troops, but I'd make sure I only had the one hero if I was taking one of the bigger guys in smaller matches, it definitely comes down to play style, whether you want to go in hacking and slashing, which i'll assume you do :), or whether you want to look for a place to strike for maximum effect with a slightly weaker hero.
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
But with Imrahil, I could also afford the likes of Damrod or Beregond, which brings my Might up some and allows for another Stand Fast!
Author:  BilboOfTheWhiteTower [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
King Dain Ironfoot wrote:
Damrod of Beregond

Never heard of him? Is he any good, and are the Warriors of Beregond allowed to have mounts? :)

Seriously...played with Aragorn (no special add ons) against a Harad and Morgul armies in Syracuse and he was worth every point I paid for him. The big point warrior heroes are worth it, but can really take a beating against magic...I learned my lesson taking Boromir of Gondor...I never got to use him everytime I played against my friends Uruk army with Saruman.
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:04 am ]
Post subject: 
BilboOfTheWhiteTower wrote:
Never heard of him? Is he any good, and are the Warriors of Beregond allowed to have mounts? :)


They ride flamingos just like Count Brass' men (a little Runestaff there for those who know of it!)

I've changed it now.

I once had a 500 point game where it was my Dwarf army against a friend's Gondor. He took King Elessar AND Damrod and about 15 men. I had Gimli and Balin and 36 warriors. Aragorn didn't do anything except kill Gimli, then I surrounded and crushed him.
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Well thats wht you get both, Aragorn and Boromir :lol:
in my cae thoug Legolas and Gimli are waling along :rofl:
Author:  Azure Rathalos [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
When I want to desimate stuff I just add in Elladan and Elrohir, 160pts of death right there!

I saw a battle where Elrond, Glorfindel, Erestor and a tiny aount of Elves saw off an astounding amount of orcs, captains and a troll!

I think thats the only time I've seen less than 15 models take out a hord :o
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