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Vault Warden Teams
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16008		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Vault Warden Teams
What does everyone think of Vault Warden Teams?

I play Dwarves as my name suggests, but I don't think they are worth the points. They are expensive. They make great walls for protecting objectives and spell casters but I would rather have more models. And they are vulnerable when the spears are dead or locked in combat.
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:08 am ]
Post subject: 
They are really good troops in general, though they obviously work best as a team. At 12.5 points a piece they are pricey, but if properly portected (IE their flanks are covered) they make for a formidable wall of dwarven steel. Iron Guard are the closest thing you have to a Vault Warden team (Two attacks, Strength 4), but they aren't as survivable against bowfire.

Do I think they are worth their points, yes and no. If they are successfully countered they will fall, but if you can keep them fighting on their terms they are worth every point. Keep them well lead (three Might hero) to keep them on the offensive during the knife fight stage of the game and you won't be disappointed. What else do dwarves have that can take a charge from a dragon or Mumakil and have a better than average chance at surviving?
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Vault Warden
How many would you field in an army?
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's a hard question to answer. At 500 points I wouldn't bother with them. I personally have looked at fielding 10 teams. I don't own them and have only proxied the models, but they work well as a solid line, particularly if you can anchor their flanks.

So a 600 point force force would look something like:
Gimli
Balin
10 Vault Wardens
10 Dwarf Archers
10 Dwarf Warriors with shield

Models = 42
Might = 6
Enough archers to be useful, solid flanks, tough center and two good heroes to protect those flanks. How versatile is this force for scenarios like Domination, etc ... A lot depends on your opponent's force, but I think this force could still work.

high Ground isn't a problem as the Vault Warden teams are a decent steam roller. Contest of Champions has Gimli supported by his cousin, Balin. Meeting Engagement you can castle up and play a war of attrition. Domination is tough on dwarves to begin with, but htere is enough to work with if you are carefully aggressive with them.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is more a question of terrain than general points. Using vault wardens in the open seems kind of pointless. Their purpose is to hold the line in tight quarters, so underground caverns or siege. I wouldn't take any at all unless there was a custom scenario that made them useful.
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
True enough, but I've seen them work and I've seen them fail. They do work best in tight quarters.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was under the impression that they could only be used in the Khazad-dum army list... is this not the case?
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, Khazad-dum is the only force that has them.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Then Gimli and Balin can't be used alongside them...
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
My oversight and you are correct. Never trust my memory.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
You had me excited there for a moment! I have a few Vault Wardens (need to buy more, though) for a Dwarven WoTR army I'm working on. It'd be great to use them in the SBG as well!
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I use generic captains as a rule so I've never had a problem. I faced Vault Wardens in WOTR once and wasn't impressed with them, but I'm sure the scenario and the force I was using helped with that perception.
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
If I am defending in a siege game, I will for sure bring them. I guess my offensive skills are not as good as my defensive skills (all thanks to the Rome Total War video game). I guess I just need to play with them more and work on using them offensively.
Author:  hixont [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Durin's Folk wrote:
If I am defending in a siege game, I will for sure bring them. I guess my offensive skills are not as good as my defensive skills (all thanks to the Rome Total War video game).


ROFLMAO!!!! I totally understand.
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Hixont, you deserve a gold coin for understanding how Rome Total War affects a players mind.
Author:  gaarew [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Durin's Folk wrote:
Hixont, you deserve a gold coin for understanding how Rome Total War affects a players mind.


Better that than these nuggets of wisdom...

hixont wrote:
. If they are successfully countered they will fall, but if you can keep them fighting on their terms they are worth every point.


hixont wrote:
True enough, but I've seen them work and I've seen them fail.



Surely the above is true of every single model in the game. Sometimes, under the right circumstances, they will outshine your wildest expectations, and then, another day, they will fail to do anything of note other than die.

Seriously, there is nothing like stating the obvious.
Author:  hixont [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I see we have another curmudgeon. If you don't like something try keeping you comments civil or better yet get out of the conversation.
Author:  gaarew [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
hixont wrote:
I see we have another curmudgeon. If you don't like something try keeping you comments civil or better yet get out of the conversation.


Actually, you'll find I'm THE curmudgeon and that that was a civil comment. Really, was there any point at all in saying that sometimes they are good and sometimes they aren't? It's the same case with every single model in the entire game. Nothing will consistently wipe the floor with all opposition, and what might be a game winner one day will be an exercise in time wasting taking it out of the case...

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is a public forum, and we all have access to it. I wouldn't for one moment want to suggest you like my opinion, but you do need to accept it. Because, whilst I respect your right to have your opinion, and how you share such tactical genius with us, I don't have to agree with it, or even like it. I can understand that you might be a little upset that I don't consider you the next Sun Tzu, Hannibal or Caesar, but that does not make my point an less valid.

Perhaps, and providing that you haven't already exploded in anger at my temerity in actually replying rather than leaving the conversation as you so demanded, you could take a moment to reflect on why you have such an issue dealing with criticism, you may just come to the conclusion that, until you have reached a level of maturity beyond 'I don't like what you said, go away!' because, basically, that is what you dressed it up as, that maybe you should take a step back until you can deal with people offering criticism.

Of course, I say should, as it is only a suggestion, and I am in no way trying to tell you what to do.

:)
Author:  Gothmog 3rd [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
gaarew wrote:
hixont wrote:
I see we have another curmudgeon. If you don't like something try keeping you comments civil or better yet get out of the conversation.


Actually, you'll find I'm THE curmudgeon and that that was a civil comment. Really, was there any point at all in saying that sometimes they are good and sometimes they aren't? It's the same case with every single model in the entire game. Nothing will consistently wipe the floor with all opposition, and what might be a game winner one day will be an exercise in time wasting taking it out of the case...

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is a public forum, and we all have access to it. I wouldn't for one moment want to suggest you like my opinion, but you do need to accept it. Because, whilst I respect your right to have your opinion, and how you share such tactical genius with us, I don't have to agree with it, or even like it. I can understand that you might be a little upset that I don't consider you the next Sun Tzu, Hannibal or Caesar, but that does not make my point an less valid.

Perhaps, and providing that you haven't already exploded in anger at my temerity in actually replying rather than leaving the conversation as you so demanded, you could take a moment to reflect on why you have such an issue dealing with criticism, you may just come to the conclusion that, until you have reached a level of maturity beyond 'I don't like what you said, go away!' because, basically, that is what you dressed it up as, that maybe you should take a step back until you can deal with people offering criticism.

Of course, I say should, as it is only a suggestion, and I am in no way trying to tell you what to do.

:)


Good one Gaarew. If I had a gold coin or similar, I would sure have given it to you
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:53 am ]
Post subject: 
There is no need for fighting because we all know that the next Sun Tzu, Hannibal, Caesar, King Xerxes, Alexandrer the Great, Genghis Khan, Napolean Bonaparte , George Washington, King Arthur, or King Leonidas is none other than yours truely, me. :yay:
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