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| D10/D12 system for SBG http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19643 |
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| Author: | emperor_thompson [ Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | D10/D12 system for SBG |
I would just like to start by saying that this was not my idea. All credit belongs to whafrog, who suggested that introducing a D10 system may improve the diversity of SBG profiles. I think his original idea was to increase the maximum fighting skill, strength and defence values to 15. I would personally prefer to see a D12 system, primarily because I prefer the look of a D12 dice, but it would also make converting the rule set much easier (the maximum would be 20, for instance). There is one problem, however. The game dynamics will need to be changed considerably. I think it may be possible, but I need ideas at the moment. I will highlight the problems as I see them, and update the list as they are resolved. If you can see anything else which you think may impact the game which I haven't considered, please let me know. Fighting Unresolved The chances of getting a tie are much smaller with D10 or D12 sided dice, so fighting skill becomes less important. Courage A few possible alternatives Courage can be left as it is (there is no reason why we can't use D6 dice at all), or a single D12 dice could be used. Other ideas welcome. A new wound chart Probably not a big issue A new wound chart needs to be designed, but that may not be too difficult. The pattern should be similar. Two-hand weapons/Daggers Unresolved If the same -1 penalty/+1 bonuses were kept, it would make 2-hand weapons much less effective. A -2/+2 bonus could be used instead, but it might be best to decide what to do about fighting skill first. This also opens up the possibility for other types of weapons, with different bonuses and penalties. |
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| Author: | antlion [ Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
I think it would be best to stick to 2 D6 for courage tests because otherwise the chance of getting around about a 7 is reduced. As this is the critical number for warriors with around 3 courage it would make differences in courage values less significant. For fight value maybe adding a portion of your fight value to the roll to win the fight would work, or adding one to the rolls of the side with the higher fight could work. |
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| Author: | emperor_thompson [ Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
You have a point about the courage, but for now I think I'll still play around with the idea of using a D12. The idea of using a larger dice is to introduce more variability, so it may be possible to have a larger spread of courage values by changing it, still not sure. Your fighting skill idea is good. Doing that may make it possible for an elf to fend off several orcs at a time, which would be nice. Of course, it does need to remain balanced. I'll try and come up with some profiles and see if it works. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
emperor_thompson wrote: I would just like to start by saying that this was not my idea. All credit belongs to whafrog, who suggested that introducing a D10 system may improve the diversity of SBG profiles. Well, thanks, but actually that was hithero's suggestion from a few years ago, or maybe it was gaarew. One of them suggested looking at the war game Celtos, which uses a D10 system, and has a wound chart with a steep power curve (as opposed to SBG's flat one). Also, someone a while back suggested adding the fight score to the highest die roll. This seems fine if you have 1 elf against 2 orcs, it makes it more like most people think it should be, but you run into trouble when you have 3 elves against a troll...your 80 points of trollness can be easily slaughtered by 30 or 40 points of elves. |
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| Author: | antlion [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
So instead maybe just add 1 to the dice roll of the side with the highest fight. Giving the side with the highest fight a bit more than just equal dice win the fight. Adding one to the dice in D12 gives the side with greater fight (assuming one die each) a 0.618 chance of winning which is greater than D6 system (7/12= 0.583...), but not by too much. Without the +1 in the D12 system the side with highest fight (assuming one die each) has a 13/24 (=0.5416...) chance of winning. Might have calculated something wrong so please tell me if I have. |
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| Author: | xtanha1rrmx [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
Perhaps there could by a way to accommodate larger difference in F values? e.g. a F5 vs F2 should have a greater chance of winning than F4 v F3. I don't know how it would work though. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
Adding the fight score of the highest participant in each fight would take care of that. Of course, the ripple effect is you then need to recost all the models. |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
Sound very nice and promising but it is a lot work cause every table needs to be reworked every modle mus be recosted but it sounds promising. |
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| Author: | emperor_thompson [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D10/D12 system for SBG |
I've developed a few new profiles to test the idea of adding the highest fighting skill to the score to win. I want to vary fighting skill from values of 1 through to 20, to give a wider spread of stats. I also added a rule where the fighting skill in a multiple combat equals the highest fighting skill plus the number of additional combatats, to give numbers some other advantage. I figured I would test the two opposite ends of the scale - orcs against high elves. Orcs had a fighting skill value of 4, the elves 11. Despite there being around 2.5 orcs to the elf, they were slaughtered. I was afraid that the difference may have been too big, so I'm now thinking of adding only half the fighting skill to the roll. I have a system for recosting models, but I'm not sure whether or not it is balanced. It will probably take a lot of playtesting to work it all out. |
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