I would just rely less on bows. High elf or dwarf or dol amroth armies fair well.
Or Legolas
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| Fighting the Shadow Lord http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21061 |
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| Author: | fritskuhntm [ Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fighting the Shadow Lord |
What are the common tactics? A) include Legolas in every army? B) ignore Shadow Lord and shoot everything else outside his Pale? C) keep trying to volley him: stats say 2 out of 12 will be sixes... |
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
I would just rely less on bows. High elf or dwarf or dol amroth armies fair well. Or Legolas
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
I agree. You should have options other than out-shooting your opponent. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
Use Gandalf, he can do the same trick as the shadow lord and can outlast him in most situations. Compel the shadow lord away from his crew when he is 12" away then shoot. Even if it fails it gives you a chance to waste the shadow lords will  I know its rare to be able to include an eagle, but they work well against the shadow lord, they can fly right over his crew, then pick him off
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
When I first started playing I always used an eagle with my dol amroth for that very reason. banners, ringwraiths, saruman etc all feared my eagle |
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
Fritskuhntm wrote: A) include Legolas in every army? B) ignore Shadow Lord and shoot everything else outside his Pale? C) keep trying to volley him: stats say 2 out of 12 will be sixes... A) is the most common way B) doesn't happen because any good player in almost every game ensures everything is under the Pall C) eh? You hit once every 12, then wound once every 12, that's 1 wound per 144 shots and 2 Fate with 2 Might, not likely  The 2 best weapons on the good side are: 1. Legolas - Because of autohit and Might points, pretty obvious. 2. Saruman - Because of his 18" Compel and Transfix he can force the SL to move back or stop still far away from your army. That means that if SL fails to resist your opponent has to decide whether to move out of Pall of Night and get hit by bows, or to stay and waste a turn. Either way he's burning Will to resist and won't have much for spells after a while. You can also blast models into Shadow Lord and then might up the S3 hits with the indirect hit to get the same effect as Legolas's. If you combine both of those heroes, no SL will ever give you troubles (and you will probably then want to play a Mirkwood force with Saruman, Legolas, 1/3 bows, 1/3 spears, 1/3 throwing daggers  ).A common misconception is that people think that Shadow Lord is an anti-Saruman model. This is WRONG. It is Saruman who is the Anti-SL model. Either of those ways allow you to still cause damage with bows to your opponent. I had 24 bows with Saruman and and a total of 45 models in my this year's GT winning list, fared pretty well I don't understand how can an Eagle work - even if you manage to charge the SL, you have 2 attacks with S6 and no Might. Given that SL has 2 Might, chances are you're losing combat, get transfixed next turn and lose the Eagle. And you shouldn't be able to charge SL anyway because any half decent player will put 2 or 3 models behind him to stop you from doing so. Using less bows doesn't make sense - bowmen are almost exactly the same in combat as the rest of the models. Having less won't make almost any difference in terms of combat, while it will make a lot of difference if SL happens to die at long range or is not present (ie. in a tournament force you should always have 33% because you don't always play SL). In terms of non-Legolas/Saruman... there's Gandalf that has similar effect to Saruman, but lower range. That's about it, otherwise you need to be using a couple of combat heroes in your force. But given the easiness of allying Legolas and Saruman, almost every army in top 10 at GTs for the past 3 years has had at least one of those two
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| Author: | cereal_theif [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
No one said less bows, just not reliant on them. I used to field the eagle king alot, 2 might 2 attacks and is massive strength. Most people don't fight eagles so don't always know how to combat eagles. Just like catapults |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
BlackMist wrote: I don't understand how can an Eagle work - even if you manage to charge the SL, you have 2 attacks with S6 and no Might. Given that SL has 2 Might, chances are you're losing combat, get transfixed next turn and lose the Eagle. And you shouldn't be able to charge SL anyway because any half decent player will put 2 or 3 models behind him to stop you from doing so. Well when people say "eagle" they mean Gwahir (who does have ONE might). Gwahir has twice as many attacks as the shadow lord and a higher fight value, so he should be able win and kill/wound him. I find it dumb that Gwahir does not count as a monstrous mount... |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
Lol eagles are the easiest models to kill. Because they are not a monstrous mount. Also put 3 orcs around shadowlord and the eagle can't even land.
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| Author: | BlackMist [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
So true. Gwaihir has mighty 2 attacks and still often loses to 1 attack with 2 Might. Even when he wins and causes 2 wounds, you still have 2 fate and 2 might to save it, so it's not that tragic. At the same time you sacrificed 125 points eagle to do that because he's not flying out of there anymore. Also, note the following - for an eagle to charge SL that's behind your army, the eagle has to finish its move about 10 or 11" away. If that happens and it was your priority, he gets sapped his will or compelled somewhere else. With no Will it gets transfixed on 3+ next turn. If it was your opponent's priority (better situation for you) then he'll cast next turn with a heroic move of his friend. Also note that either way he'll have a few models left behind SL so you can't charge, hence first you lose your Will, then you either get transfixed 10" away (or compelled to fight with morannons) or you'll charge into the orcs behind sl, get transfixed and surrounded. Either way Gwaihir has completely no effect. You would have to be playing a complete noob to be able to pull off Gwaihir's charge on SL and kill him this way - and even then you don't win and kill that often for the move to be 'profitable'. |
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| Author: | fritskuhntm [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fighting the Shadow Lord |
Great stuff; thanks guys. |
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