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Heroic Fights.
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23776		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mikaroo [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Heroic Fights.
Hey everybody,

I've read a few things on the forums about calling Heroic Fights to do long range attacks. And I'd love some clarification on how I could abuse this!

For my Dragon, if I were to move 12" into combat and then call a Heroic Combat and kill every model in that combat. Would I be able to move another 12" to attack another target?

I tried to interpret the rule book and I didn't like their description.

Now this has never been pulled off before in my circle of friends, as our understanding was a heroic combat's only benefit would be to take out high priority targets first( Say a Bannerman to stop rerolls in the following fights) so when I go JFK on Aragorn in 1 turn, I need a damn good detail explanation as to why I got away with that haha!

Also, in the following move after the heroic combat, could I cast a spell while moving? With say the witch king on fell beast? Wow that just sounds unfair!

Thanks in advance!
Author:  Draugluin [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
Yes, you can move the full distance after a heroic move. But you can't cast a spell, those can only be cast in the movement phase.
Author:  BlackMist [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
Mikaroo wrote:
as our understanding was a heroic combat's only benefit would be to take out high priority targets first( Say a Bannerman to stop rerolls in the following fights

It appears that the way you play is that when you're striking you don't choose who you strike, but your opponent chooses who gets wounded. That is incorrect. The player rolling the dice (striking) is the player who chooses who he wants to harm (cause wounds upon). If you're in combat with a banner bearer and 3 other men, you can choose to strike the banner bearer first if you like.

Heroic Combat indeed allows you to move again and charge if you killed all enemies in that combat (note that spearmen are not part of combat, as per basic rules). It's a very common thing to 'bounce' models with heroic moves.

For example a wraith on Fell Beast is 15" away from the nearest enemy. He moves 3" forward, compels the enemy 3", then charges remaining 9" (15 total). He then calls a heroic combat and can fly another 12" (not allowed to cast or throw weapons during a heroic move however, regardless of whether this has been done earlier in the turn or not). Fell Beasts that way can bounce or trampoline up to 27" in a turn, making them extremely potent models, hence why so many have always dominated big tournaments. Same applies to Dragons, except they're too expensive to really dominate and they're not good enough in magic.
Author:  Elessar Telcontar [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
BlackMist wrote:
Mikaroo wrote:
as our understanding was a heroic combat's only benefit would be to take out high priority targets first( Say a Bannerman to stop rerolls in the following fights

It appears that the way you play is that when you're striking you don't choose who you strike, but your opponent chooses who gets wounded. That is incorrect. The player rolling the dice (striking) is the player who chooses who he wants to harm (cause wounds upon). If you're in combat with a banner bearer and 3 other men, you can choose to strike the banner bearer first if you like.

I think he just meant that you could choose the fight with the bannerman first with a Heroic Fight, kill him and thus prevent the other fights to get re-rolls.
Author:  Mikaroo [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
Wow guys that is ridiculous, and to the last post. Yeah that is what I meant.
Author:  BlackMist [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
My bad then, I misunderstood.

It's not ridiculous. It all comes down to timing (like most things in this game). There is a lot of players out there who make some really bad decisions with heroic actions and then run out of Might too quickly. Often times using a point to cause a wound is better than calling a heroic combat and putting yourself in a tricky spot next turn.

On the positive a well placed heroic combat often means double kills, so if you have 3 mounted heroes likely to kill 6 in a turn you will want them to be killing 12 in that turn.
Author:  whafrog [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
BlackMist wrote:
Often times using a point to cause a wound is better than calling a heroic combat and putting yourself in a tricky spot next turn.


No kidding...one of my recent games I charged Boromir (mounted) into a goblin that was in range of Durburz and Groblog. Called a heroic fight, killed the goblin, charged into Durburz and Groblog and proceeded to kill them both (8 dice, lance, and several points of Might). Not sure what possessed me, I think I just wanted to see what would happen. In any case my son didn't seem too upset because I miscalculated a critical distance: the next turn the horde of goblins parted like the Red Sea and in rushed the Spider Queen (just within reach) and several venom-back spiders. Spider Queen's not afraid of no stupid Horn of Gondor...that was the end of Boromir. A few turns later, Gulahvar ate Faramir. My son was very happy that game :)
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
Like many things in SBG, you have to show some restraint. I try very hard when using Heroic Combat to keep as a team so you don't get isolated, surrounded and killed. I don't always succeed. :-) I've had some isolation issues with Troll Chiefs and Galadriel (combat version) in the past since each of them can be so dang effective. Sometimes I've managed to pull my skin back out of the fire but not always.

Sounds very well played by your son. Not planned obviously but adapted quickly to the situation and made the best of it. The double-edged sword of teaching him how to play well, huh? How long has he been playing?
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
We've been playing off and on since around 2006, but we don't get in that many games. Around the time the warbands were introduced he lost interest (not because of warbands...a mix of Star Wars roleplay, parkour, and girls :) ) so most of my games with him had been LoME. Numbers were so key with LoME, and we never wanted huge games (took too long) that we never used heroes bigger than, say, Faramir or Ugluk. The few times we did bigger games with bigger heroes, we never finished.

Warbands has changed all that, and we're starting to use the big guys just to see what would happen. Somehow that weekend he got all enthused again, so we really used stuff we hadn't before. Also, he's 17 now, and been playing the game of Go (ancient Chinese game)...his perspective has changed and it's more challenging for me, so I'm glad about that.

The first game he trounced me because of what I described, and very poor deployment of archers on my part.

The second game was a nail-biter: the Lords of Battle scenario. I had pretty much the same force (I'm painting Gondor now and wanted to use them), while he took a Cave Drake, some Uruks including a load of xbows, and Druhzag with bats and spiders. We were pretty much tied for points up to the low 20s, then he suddenly shot ahead 33-22 as his drake and superpowered bats started eating my fountain guard/ranger line. I had Boromir swinging around with KoMT in a wide circle to avoid his xbows (with WoMT forming a cannon-fodder screen) and finally managed to flank him. After catching up and playing see-saw for a bit, the game ended with him winning 44-43. That was probably the most fun game.

Third game was a mirror image of the first: Hold Ground scenario, where with lucky dice I was able to put his Radagast and Ent on one side of the board (last to deploy), and all other warbands were on the other. Between Amdur and my Khandish King in a chariot, I made quick work of his Rohan forces.

I guess to get back to topic :) A few things I learned: heroic fights have great potential, just don't over-commit; deployment is key with the warbands; for most armies, numbers still matter, and tying up tons of points in a wizard, an Ent, and Galadriel in a 1000 point army means you run the risk of deploying small isolated groups.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
Parkour? Yikes. That's a nice challenge for him. I first learned of that style "exercise" from the early sequence in Casino Royale. Very impressive. Now that you mention it I may have to add it to my daughter's training (I've already committed to having her a Brown Belt by the time she hits high school!). :-)
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heroic Fights.
Beowulf03809 wrote:
Parkour? Yikes. That's a nice challenge for him. I first learned of that style "exercise" from the early sequence in Casino Royale.


Yeah, he can run at a big picnic table the long way and leap onto it like a cat with his hands, swing his legs through and hit the ground without losing a stride. It looks totally awesome :)
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