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Swords and Math Questions
http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24498		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tezzy [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Swords and Math Questions
So I know there has been a lot of lamentation about swords. As of now they only help the extremes: low fight goblins and high fight elves. It seems everyone else in the middle is left with a useless option they come with standard.

However that then leads me to this question: if two warriors of even fight are in a duel, is it ever beneficial to feint? I don't know how to do the math behind it, however I know that in an even fight with 1 attack on both sides, the model with higher fight has a 58% chance of winning, so the feinting swordsmen has a 42% chance of winning.

I guess if you have heavier armor it is beneficial to feint? :roll: I don't quite know, let me know what you all think.
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swords and Math Questions
If the fight is even, or even if you have higher fight, I don't think it would be worth it. It now makes elven blades more useful, because elves are more likely to actually tie if they feint. Has anyone played using the new hand weapon rules? Does feinting take up a lot of extra time, what with the rolling for the fight value? I think it would be a lot easier, as Whafrog mentioned, to just have an even modifiers instead of D3. I could see a straight -1 to fight value being not only simple but also useful for most armies.
Author:  Damian [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swords and Math Questions
I've played a couple of games with the new weapon rules. They don't really add time to the game overall. Initially you'll be making a few more dice rolls, but as more models are removed from the game faster due to the special strikes it evens out. More models killed = less dice rolled in the next fight phase.
I think monsters will become more popular and the addition of even a cheap monster like a Cave Troll has a serious reduction in model count, which also has an impact on the speed of the game overall. Elves may actually want to feint against a Cave Troll as it is F6. Perhaps not playing with the new weapon rules would be more unbalancing in the context of other rule changes, such as those for monsters and heroes.
I also don't think that the new weapon rules are as crucial to winning a game as supporting attacks and re-rolls from banners. The more dice you roll in a fight the better, and that hasn't changed. 'Heroic Accuracy' may prove quite useful for removing your opponent's spears and banners.

I like the idea behind the new weapon rules but I do think they could have been better implemented, particularly with regard to what some models are carrying (Rohan Throwing Spears with no obvious hand weapon, for example). A few games isn't enough to really form a hard opinion though, so I'll continue using all the new rules for now.
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swords and Math Questions
Damian wrote:
I like the idea behind the new weapon rules but I do think they could have been better implemented, particularly with regard to what some models are carrying (Rohan Throwing Spears with no obvious hand weapon, for example).


I believe "no obvious hand weapon" means a hand weapon that can not be used for special strikes.
Author:  Damian [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swords and Math Questions
While that is a reasonable solution (and that's exactly how I've been playing it) it is not especially satisfactory. For a start every hand weapon you could think of would fit into one of the categories listed in the rules, there is no such thing as a generic hand weapon, they would all be concussive, bladed or pointed. Secondly, it seems strange to upgrade a model with a throwing spear and lose the benefits of a weapon he would otherwise have just because you're using a model holding a spear.

2 Warriors of Rohan at Helm's Deep.
Warrior 1: I have been sharpening my sword ready to hew orc necks.
Warrior 2: I will fight today with throwing spear and my trusty unspecified hand weapon.

How hard would it have been for them to say something like "if the model's hand weapon is not visible assume they're carrying a dagger" or something like that?
Author:  Draugluin [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swords and Math Questions
I would assume they're carrying a dagger. It's a weapon that's easily hidden, so you can justify the model not having one.
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