The One Ring :: View topic - Stopping the Mumak with magic

Last time I faced a Mumak, it was almost the easiest game I've ever played - almost. If I had given my Budget Wraith 10 will instead of 8, I would have won without really needing to work for it. I was a turn or two away from compelling the Mumak off the board when my Ringwraith ran out of will (at which point, I had to actually kill the thing, which took a lot longer). If you have 2 Wraiths, the Mumak is gone, no two ways about it.

Basically: Compel the driver, if it's a normal Chieftain then you can do it immediately, he doesn't have enough will to resist. Otherwise, just hammer away at his will and you're fine. As many compels as it takes to walk it off the board, do it. Make sure you're always going first, no point in wasting the will to compel if the Mumak keeps coming back the following turn. Drain the driver's might and have a full supply ready yourself.

If you can kill the Chieftain (whether it's a Harad or Mahud), your life is much easier (because then you can also "encourage" it to stampede much more easily). In that case, you can have fun wounding it, Black Darts and such.

But yeah, Ringwraith, move first, horses are preferable so you're always out of trample range, and just walk it off the board.

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Stopping the Mumak with magic
Simple. If I have an army with a wraith or two, what are the ins and outs of stopping this thing. What do you cast against the person driving it, and how often. Id just like everyones general experience.

Author:	JamesR [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Transfix the driver. That's the ONLY surefire way to stop it

Author:	truck22 [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Then the mumak is quite good

Author:	Dikey [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Immobilize the driver or spend two wills more to compel him into crushing his own troops. This second one works best if the driver has no more will to resist.

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Can heroes like named ones be the driver? And also you can compel them through their own troops? I didn't think it affects the whole MUmak.

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Author:	Dikey [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Can heroes like named ones be the driver? And also you can compel them through their own troops? I didn't think it affects the whole MUmak. A Mumak can be driven only by the Captain. Paying for the upgrade, one could use the much better Mumak Mahud who replace the captain. If the driver is dead, his place can only be taken from one of the haradrim in the howda. No other hero can lead the Mumak (it's implied that driving the Mumak requires some sort of training). You can compel the captain (no spell can be directed to the mumak itself aside Black Dart and the blast) to drive the Mumak through his own troops.

Author:	JamesR [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
truck22 wrote: Then the mumak is quite good Not really. It's just immune to magic

Author:	Draugluin [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
It is VERY good. Even if you can transfix or compel the driver, you have to get within 12" of the driver, meaning that you are like 3-4 inches from the mumak itself. Meaning that whatever it is it would have had to be within shooting range of the archers, and really close to trampling range both before and after casting it. There are some pretty big risks into using magic against it.

Author:	mr. dude [ Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Last time I faced a Mumak, it was almost the easiest game I've ever played - almost. If I had given my Budget Wraith 10 will instead of 8, I would have won without really needing to work for it. I was a turn or two away from compelling the Mumak off the board when my Ringwraith ran out of will (at which point, I had to actually kill the thing, which took a lot longer). If you have 2 Wraiths, the Mumak is gone, no two ways about it. Basically: Compel the driver, if it's a normal Chieftain then you can do it immediately, he doesn't have enough will to resist. Otherwise, just hammer away at his will and you're fine. As many compels as it takes to walk it off the board, do it. Make sure you're always going first, no point in wasting the will to compel if the Mumak keeps coming back the following turn. Drain the driver's might and have a full supply ready yourself. If you can kill the Chieftain (whether it's a Harad or Mahud), your life is much easier (because then you can also "encourage" it to stampede much more easily). In that case, you can have fun wounding it, Black Darts and such. But yeah, Ringwraith, move first, horses are preferable so you're always out of trample range, and just walk it off the board.

Author:	Draugluin [ Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
For that to work, horses would be necessary. To be in range of the chieftain, you have to be 6" away from the base, which is the perfect range for trample. If you fail to cast, or the chieftain resists (he can gain resistance to magic for 20 points), you're as good as squished.

Author:	Galanur [ Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
mr. dude wrote: Last time I faced a Mumak, it was almost the easiest game I've ever played - almost. If I had given my Budget Wraith 10 will instead of 8, I would have won without really needing to work for it. I was a turn or two away from compelling the Mumak off the board when my Ringwraith ran out of will (at which point, I had to actually kill the thing, which took a lot longer). If you have 2 Wraiths, the Mumak is gone, no two ways about it. Basically: Compel the driver, if it's a normal Chieftain then you can do it immediately, he doesn't have enough will to resist. Otherwise, just hammer away at his will and you're fine. As many compels as it takes to walk it off the board, do it. Make sure you're always going first, no point in wasting the will to compel if the Mumak keeps coming back the following turn. Drain the driver's might and have a full supply ready yourself. If you can kill the Chieftain (whether it's a Harad or Mahud), your life is much easier (because then you can also "encourage" it to stampede much more easily). In that case, you can have fun wounding it, Black Darts and such. But yeah, Ringwraith, move first, horses are preferable so you're always out of trample range, and just walk it off the board. If I remember correctly you cannot force a model getting off the board, willingly or not, only exception is from breaking courage tests (which I think the mumak is immune to that run away from the board) or a mission that needs models crossing 1 end and getting off the board on the other side. And a tumbs up... compel/transfix are normally 12" range, which is dangerously close to the mumak, more than that you have to target the captain itself, so it should be 3/4" counting inside the mumak base to get in range. I hope you can get there right cause a smart mumak commander if hes awared of that he will call and heroic move and stampede your wraith to bloody pulp. Ps* Mumak charge path of 8" its not getting in combat or counting as a charge and unless mentioned on FaQ, if I recall, an heroic march that gives +5" movement (cause hes a mounted model for all game purposes) might help the mumak with a couple more inches of stomp and flat stuff. I wouldnt be 2 much happy with just 1 wraith in there so close to the beast, specially if the colossal thing starts staring at you with snake eyes... You guys never thought on how an heroic march can make a huge diference on a mumak havent you? :P

Author:	mr. dude [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
I don't have the Mumak's rules on me right now, but unless they've changed drastically, it actually does walk off the board if it touches a board edge. Most models don't, they just get trapped against the board edge, but the Mumak would leave the board completely. As for heroic march, I don't think it would work since you can't charge on a heroic march. The Mumak's trample isn't directly a charge, but it could lead to a charge should the enemy model survive the trample. So, yeah, I don't think a Mumak can trample after heroic marching. As for getting too close, it's true you have to get really close since you are targeting the commander with compel. That's why having more might is so imperative, your Ringwraiths MUST move first every single turn, that's a law more than a suggestion. Otherwise you will lose all your compelling progress (not to mention the risk of getting trampled). Like I said earlier, try to keep the Wraiths mounted so that they can move close enough to cast the spell and still be able to get out of trample range.

Author:	Draugluin [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
The Mumak can only be forced off the board when it stampedes, so you can't (RAW) compel it away. The Heroic Trample is a bit more difficult, because it doesn't actually charge, it just stops and fights if it doesn't kill someone. It does say that "the Mumak stops (exactly like a charging model would) and will fight the enemy as normal in the Fight phase." That parenthetical could be taken 1 of 2 ways: 1, it is in fact charging because it's doing the exact same thing, or 2, that means that it is different from a charging model, it just behaves the same way.

Author:	Hodush [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
You can't force models off the board, they can only leave when they fail something. Doesn't matter what it is. You would have been extremely lucky or someone played very poorly if your wraith didnt get charged and you were able to get it towards the board edge. And what were the archers doing on the Mumak? It's a good model. It has its flaws. The best way to take it down is as the above though, immobilise and compel to make it crush its own troops.

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Author:	Draugluin [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
The Mumak can stampede off the board.

Author:	SouthernDunedain [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
I have caused many a mumak to stampede off the board edge. Draw them close then pin them in place with high courage troops/ magic until it fails a courage test. Then cackle in glee as it runs away taking all those horrible bowmen with it.

Author:	mr. dude [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Well, Hodush, it's hard to charge my Ringwraith as I was doing a good job protecting it. The Mumak obviously can't do it since it's busy getting compelled, while the rest of my opponent's army I made sure was on the other side of the board, being dealt with by about half of my army. Archers' only target was the Ringwraith, and there simply weren't enough of them to do any damage to it. Draugluin, I just reread the rules, it seems you're right about walking it off the board. However, I would still contest the idea of Heroic March, but that's a different debate for a different thread. If you want to kill the Mumak, have the higher fight value, always move first, and you will win through attrition.

Author:	Grungehog [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
unless you run out of might first.

Author:	mr. dude [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stopping the Mumak with magic
Which really shouldn't be happening, provided you put enough weight behind your attacks. You can't counter a Mumak half-assedly, whether it's through magic, combat, archery or whatever other means you have, fighting a Mumak takes a concentrated effort. That's my answer to all the questions of how my models can survive against it, I'm committing a lot to fighting the thing, even when I send a Ringwraith out solo against it, I'm taking extra care to make sure nothing will interfere.