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| Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31265 |
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| Author: | Spike117 [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Which one overall is most decisive? Luck is my ultimate bane, but I don't think it is most important; I'd go with Composition as the overall best. |
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| Author: | Sacrilege83 [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
I don't play many games, but the last game I played a bad tactical error that cost me the game when I had split a unit of 8 orcs when I didn't have to, I should've had them stick together and maybe I would've won my game. |
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| Author: | Spike117 [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Sacrilege83 wrote: I don't play many games, but the last game I played a bad tactical error that cost me the game when I had split a unit of 8 orcs when I didn't have to, I should've had them stick together and maybe I would've won my game. I know the sting of a bad mid-battle error. It gets even worse when that bad decision is paired with some bad rolls 
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
There is no such thing as luck. Its a combination of tactics and list. Tactics are more important. A smart general can beat a great list and avoid any 'unlucky' outcomes you may say. 1. General and tactics 2. List 3. All else |
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| Author: | Spike117 [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: There is no such thing as luck. Its a combination of tactics and list. Tactics are more important. A smart general can beat a great list and avoid any 'unlucky' outcomes you may say. 1. General and tactics 2. List 3. All else I was just thinking dice rolls; for map, combat, tests. I have had a Dwarf try to descend ruins and fall and break his neck. 
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| Author: | GreenWood [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
In order of importance 1. Army List 2. Army List 3. Army List 
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| Author: | rumtap [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
I've had games where luck played a big part. Sometimes I can never roll higher than a 2. But in another game I one shoted a named ringwraith with a moria goblin. so luck works both ways meaning it cancels itself out Army composition can also play a big part, those damn elves with their high fight. But I've also seen those damn elves get squished a few times which makes me think, "It's not what you've got but how you use it." So that leaves tactics. I have lost a number of games where I can reflect in hindsight on the errors I made. Can't blame the luck with the dice, can't blame the army that was used, can only blame my tactics (or was outplayed by my opponents tactics.) So tactics it is for me. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: There is no such thing as luck. Its a combination of tactics and list. Tactics are more important. A smart general can beat a great list and avoid any 'unlucky' outcomes you may say. When there are dice involved, luck plays a great part. All the great tactics may fail if you don't get the six where you need it when you need it. But I think one should be able of building his own luck. Most of the time, we create our luck. |
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| Author: | Valadorn [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Without one you can't achieve anything, with 2 or 3 you simply as the chance to achieve something. |
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| Author: | Sacrilege83 [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Dikey wrote: But I think one should be able of building his own luck. Most of the time, we create our luck. A.K.A loaded dice. |
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| Author: | Valadorn [ Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Sacrilege83 wrote: Dikey wrote: But I think one should be able of building his own luck. Most of the time, we create our luck. A.K.A loaded dice. Hahahahhahaha I don't think he is meaning that, though sarcasm is fair here |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Good question. Army build has a lot to do with it, especially nowadays when monsters and wizards can literally level the playing field with things like hurl and sorc blast. but I have seen the best prepared armies fall apart as their opponent rolled six after six after six after six and tore up some stout pieces. I have also seen the tide of battle change with a single, well placed use of a tactic as simple as falling back to regroup. In order of importance, I vote army build, tactics, luck. In that order. |
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| Author: | Spike117 [ Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
jdizzy001 wrote: Good question. Army build has a lot to do with it, especially nowadays when monsters and wizards can literally level the playing field with things like hurl and sorc blast. but I have seen the best prepared armies fall apart as their opponent rolled six after six after six after six and tore up some stout pieces. I have also seen the tide of battle change with a single, well placed use of a tactic as simple as falling back to regroup. In order of importance, I vote army build, tactics, luck. In that order. That's exactly what I would say. Although tactics plays a huge roll, a well-balanced, well-thought out army is going to overcome better tactics and undesirable luck a lot easier then tactics can overcome a good army or luck. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Speaking from my own experience I'd say luck is the most important. This isn't a computer game where certain outcomes will always happen. Having a good army and a good plan is important to be sure but if your troops don't preform on the table (i.e. you role poorly) you aren't going anywhere. Tactics and luck can overcome a poor list while a good list and luck can overcome bad tactics. But tactics and a good list can't overcome a lack of luck. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
Here's the thing, good strategy factors luck into the equation. It's very rare to consider a move to be good if it has a very low chance of working. In fact, quite often you assume bad luck and build your strategy from there. So, between tactics and army building... That's a tough one. No matter how good a player you are, if your army is weak, you will struggle. You won't go down without a fight, but it's very difficult to play the game if your warriors are dying in droves and you don't have enough of them to be able to afford that, for example. Happened to me in my last game. My army was built around a small number of regular Orcs and very little might in the army, I was destined to lose before any dice were rolled. Still, I took out my opponent's big scary heroes. Maybe a better player could have done more, but I don't consider myself too bad at this game... So my verdict is: It depends on the type of army, and it depends on the scenario. If the scenario is focused on killing lots of things, then you can build a very point-n-click slaughter army that anyone could use (the famous Shade+Corsair Reavers army comes to mind). If the objective is anything else, then I don't think point-n-click armies exist with that: you actually have to think to be able to win the game. |
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| Author: | Coenus Scaldingus [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
When building a car, it doesn't matter if you think the engine, wheels or chassis are more important, for the car won't function in the absence of any of these. A good army played well can still be defeated due to the worst possible dice rolls. It always surprises me how people claim the dice don't matter, for surely we've all been in a situation where those fickle cubes have all but deserted us. Unless it's a full-Might Boromir, a hero rolling just 1s and 2s, sometimes just for a single turn, may well go down. Legolas is a staple of many solid armies, and there's nothing wrong with charging him into a goblin with spear support.. but given the wrong dice, there is a small chance he won't live to see the next turn. Losing priority and several heroic moves can be massive. Certain armies are all-but unable to win specific scenarios (assuming they encounter an opposing force more suited to the mission). Specific armies will struggle particularly against others. Some armies simply really are weak, while others feature a variety of vastly underpriced models. Great players may find a way to make suboptimal forces work, but no matter how experienced, some battles simply cannot be won. Vice-versa, a poor player can still win with a highly competitive force, but may still lose against the better player. To win most scenarios, you have to understand the victory conditions and when the game ends - forgetting those more often than not loses you the game. One also has to know their own army, to make it work best for the task at hand. If you don't know how to use your incredibly strong army, it still won't work for you. But let's be honest here. If all goes well, you'll praise your tactical genius, and if all goes badly, you'll blame the dice. The first even more so when taking a relatively weak list, the latter even more so when taking a strong army. |
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| Author: | Browne115 [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
I would say tactical prowess is often built upon the army build so this has to be the most important although I do believe if played correctly most armies could win most games and then luck at crucial moments plays its part. That said, with certain models and certain monsters there really is no tactic other than getting them stuck in as fast as possible - the tactics then become a lot smaller scale. The way your army is built defines the way you play inevitably though the scenario will also impact this (and on many occasions this is chosen by luck...) Certainly this weekend i watched a 4 hero 500 point army struggle miserably at reconnoitre which they would never be able to win unless they stopped the troop heavy opposition - there wasnt really any other way that could go. I would say luck is the least important really as while you obviously hope you will roll correctly most tactics as someone pointed out above have a plan for if the rolling doesnt pull it off - its what banners are there to help. I generally feel that over a game (or maybe even 2) luck should balance out |
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| Author: | MRmehman [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tactics, Luck, or Army Build? |
To a certain extent, luck is the most important part of any game system. I've played games in the past where I've lost horribly because I just can't roll well. I've also played games where my dice have saved me in the face of poor tactical decisions. Pretty much everything is more important then luck, but if you can't roll well, you've lost the game. |
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