Hodush's WIP

Hodush · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:16 am

I'll be uploading some WIP shots over the month.

I'm starting off by doing the Silmarillion Sculpt/Conversion challenge for this month and am looking at making Beleg from scratch. To start it off with and to help me know what I should include in the model, I have come up with a quick profile for Beleg. Let me know your thoughts as it may affect what I decide to do in making the model. I want it to be balanced enough to play with even though I probably never will.

EDIT: Changed cost, removed bodyguard, spelling.
Beleg "Strongbow" Cúthalion (Elf) Cost: 105 Pts
Fv/S S D A W C MWF
6/3+ 4 4 2 2 6 3/2/2

Wargear:
Belthronding: Enchanted bow of black yew wood. It counts as an elf bow with a strength of 4.
Dailir: An unerring arrow which never failed to be found unharmed when shot from Belthronding. Beleg may declare that he is using Dailir which automatically wounds if it hits. Beleg must recover Dailir from the body of his target (place an objective marker where it is slain or flees the board) by moving into base contact with an objective marker before he can use it again. This takes the place of one of his regular shots (so remember to use a different coloured dice).

Anglachel: Anglachel was one of two swords Eöl forged from iron that fell from heaven as a flaming star: all earth-delved iron it would cleave asunder. Anglachel always wounds on a 4+. 20pts
Armour: Beleg may take heavy armour for 10 pts for +2 D

Special Rules:
Deadly Shot: Beleg may shoot three times in a single turn.
Woodland Creature: Immune to difficult terrain which are woods.
Terror: Causes Terror
Unlucky friend: Turin may not wield Gurthang if Beleg is in his force.
Dark heart of the smith: Anglachel is known to rejoice when drawn for war. When equipped with Anglachel, following his first melee combat, on subsequent turns he must charge an enemy within range, taking any necessary checks as normal. If there is no enemy within charging range, he must move a minimum of 3" (half move) toward the nearest opponent. This rule applies until the game is over.

Profile was based off the haldir profile: + 1 will, 75 pts.
Terror + 5, Bow + 10, Sword +10, Arrow +5

I think his quirks make him an interesting character, very tactical to use, powerful but also weak.

THIS LINK IS DEAD & IS FOR READ ONLY. I found it after I made the rules up myself, but is good to have another reference.
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12797&p=230163&hilit=beleg#p230163

KnightyKnight · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:05 am

So you have F6, a crossbow that you can fire while moving, an arrow that has instawound, a sword that destroys wargear, terror, expert shot, etc etc for just over 100 points?

I don't mean to sound rude, but that's way overpowered/underpriced.

Instawounding items are never a good idea. Sure the morgul blade is cheap, but you have to use it in combat with characters that suffer in combat, and the item can only be used once.

Here we have an instawounding item that is ranged and can be used multiple times.

I understand that you're aiming for a statline that represents a hero's feats, but that simply isn't plausible in game terms. There has to be a balance.

Goldman25 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:49 am

I agree, that does seem a tad overpriced for such a powerful hero. Maybe make his super-arrow cancel out Fate rolls or something instead, and make his sword cost roughly the same amount as Anduril as an extra piece of wargear, because it can do pretty much the same things. His bow is the same as a great bow in the new Hobbit rulebook, so I'm not sure that's overly overpowered.

The special rules he has aren't overly overpriced, considering Legolas costs pretty much the same and has much the same rules. As you have said, Bodyguard seems like a pointless one with a Courage of 6, I'd get rid of that rule. The rest seem pretty good though.

KnightyKnight · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:22 am

Crossbows have the offset of being unable to move and shoot. Up until recently they were the only S4 missiles in the game, and paid a rather hefty penalty to have that ability. But even now we have the great bow, no one actually has it yet. We don't know who will have it or how much it will cost.

@Goldman It doesn't have the same effect as Anduril. Anduril kills on a 4+, this destroys wargear. Even so, a points increase is needed for such an ability.

I've just re-read 'Dark Heart of the Smith' as well. Sorry, I'm confused? "Once Beleg is engaged in combat he must charge any enemy in range" even though a model cannot move once it is in base contact with another model i.e. melee combat. So if an enemy charges you Beleg can simply jump onto another opponent?

Again feel free to experiment with fun and interesting rules, but you have to keep balance of the game in mind.

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:22 pm

Well considering aragorn the king is nearly triple the points of beleg, you get an awful lot more. Beleg should at least be 175 at the very minimum because the stats you have given him put him on par with Azog, Bolg etc.

Hodush · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:20 am

Thanks for the feedback guys. Its correct that if you look at the abilities it does seem overpriced, so i tried to offset it by having negative aspects. This guy was a pretty big hero, essentially the legolas of the first age, while Turin i would consider as the aragorn, but I wouldn't want turin to cost 500pts, so trying to keep him low-ish by having negative traits instead of just making everything cost a lot. I feel it gives him more character this way, as is fitting, and that he should be compared to legolas, not aragorn. And yes I am trying to stay in keeping with the lore.

Dark heart of the smith: This is essentially the twins rule when one of them dies except that it activates when he is first engaged in melee - ie draws his sword - instead of when someone dies. Considering most battles will be a continual engagement, this should, in my opinion, offset his archer skills as he wouldn't be able to use them if he is forced to charge. So it is a tactical decision to engage him or not in the first place and a bit of a gamble as he could spend the rest of the game in combat without a choice. As a reminder, and further restriction, I added the half move rule so that he can't just run away but also so that he still has a chance to shoot, although I imagine he won't have many clear targets very often. An alternative would be to elect a hero to kill and charge towards it until it has been destroyed, but that isn't what he was known to do. And no he cannot disengage from combat.

Note that he is D4, will take wounds pretty easy, and only has 1 fate point (and lore wise would be understandable to put it as a 0) and has only 2 attacks so its not like he is going to destroy everything like an A3 hero would. Easily surrounded and killed if enough models can pass the terror check. Without terror, he would be too easy to kill I think.

What would you price him at without the wargear? Thanks for offering the pts total as a whole but I'm interested to know how much you think each bit of wargear is worth? Specifically terror, expertshow, the bow, arrow and sword, taking into account its positive and negative effects.

In terms of the bow, he is essentially the greatest archer of the age, so much so that his bow is actually named. Rather than give him deadly shot, i thought it would be ok to give the bow S4 (he is after all an elf so the only other option would be 2+ shoot value), unless anyone can think up another rule or stat change which isn't clunky. He could get +1 to wound, but that is more useful than S4 really, so I'm not a fan.

The arrow is really a use once or twice per game thing. Lore wise, it never breaks (until Beleg sat on it and died the same day). Place an objective marker if he gets a kill with it, he has to touch it to pick it up. This is going to be hard to do if he is ever engaged in combat as he will most likely be moving away from it due to the swords rules. I don't really like insta wound, but it's simple, and forces might points to be spent if he fails to hit. Alternative is causes 2 wounds instead of one or something. I see this being used against shamans and banners or taking an early wound off a hero, tactical but not entirely game changing. His best use would probably be starting on one flank, shooting and engaging, picking up the arrow and moving towards the combat in the centre, so he could be out of action for a few turns just running to get there.

In remarks related to destroying wargear - I don't have a lot of tournament experience to know how this ability will be abused, but i think Floi Stonehand has this ability, so can't be too bad. You have to elect to wound OR target wargear (both 4+), you don't get both. Which is a long term risk for a D4 character as he is more likely to die the longer things go on. Is there really that much it could be used on which would be overpowered? Maybe he already has enough quirks that this isn't needed, though I thought it might add some tactical play to the battles. He would never fight Sauron with the ring, so I don't have too much of an issue with it, but will remove it if someone thinks it would be smart.

I based it off Haldir's profile, but legolas get's deadly shot for free if you add MWF for 5pts each and a 5pt bow to Haldir's profile. So I am a little confused now. I have actually used the more expensive profile.

I obviously don't want to make it too difficult to use him but here is an additional rule for Anglachel: Any rolls of 1 made by Beleg in determining who wins the fight count as hitting an ally in the same combat (if there is one). Once the fight is completely resolved, roll to wound on the ally, even if Beleg has died or the enemy killed.

I have editied the profile slightly as a result of our discussion.

Hodush · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:19 am

Just an update for this months Painting Comp. Dwarf Captain to start off with, coat is a bit hard to see so I will try get a better pic when it is day time.

Base coat: Black
Layer 1: VGC Gory Red
Layer 2: VGC Gory Red
Layer 3: VMC Red

Pretty simple but effective, water down the red. Trying to gifure out what to do the cloak at the bottom, Im thinking light green. As for the helm, I guess I will go steel and bronze/gold. Any ideas?

Amarthadan · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:36 am

What about nog gold at all?

Red/gold is really generic, it might be interesting seeing a full steel model?

Just throwing ideas here. The cloak looks wonderful already.

Grungehog · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:52 am

Just to let you know Floi CANNOT NEGATE WARGEAR RULES, he's only able to negate special rules in the section that says special rules.

Other than that, I think Beleg should not insta wound, I think D3 wounds is more apt, and better balanced.
Failling that it could rend(like monsters)

The dwarf is looking nice and promising

Hodush · **Posted:** Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:40 am

Thanks for the tips guys.
@amarthadan - I have been painting Dol Amroth knights before this and I wanted them to be by the book so basically it was white, blue and silver and I get very sick of silver, so im not heaps keen on the idea at this time. Also, the silvers that I have don't really work well together as they are pretty similar and I can't seem to get them dulled down so this is probably one of my big challenges in painting at the moment - the use of silver/steel.

Good idea Grungehog. What do you think of instant wound when a natural 6 (no modifications) is rolled? This would be the same as Ori's profile.

Hodush's WIP

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