Agreed - but like any tabletop game, it is in part what you make of it. Ard Boys tournaments make a mockery of something that should be a fun experience in Middle Earth, Warhammer, etc... The Pinwheel just further convinces me that I'm much happier staying far away from them.

Just one other comment/question - how do things like Ard Boys help promote the hobby? It doesn't seem to excite the unitiated and it only seems to [word deleted] off the old-timers (that aren't cheesy enough to take a broken list FTW). Lame lame lame.

EDITED: What? I can't say [word deleted]? That's a bag of warm monkey [word deleted]!

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yeah. I was at the Chicago Bunker today and a couple guys from San Francisco who had come out for the Ard Boyz finals came in. We were having a bit of a discussion about WotR. A couple of the things that the main guy from those two had for rules opinions.

1: Epic Strike in duels = kosher. I disagreed with him here.
2: Big point cost for Legendary Formations includes first company cost. Once again I disagreed.

The list he's planning on using in the finals is something he said he would never use in a normal game. For one, he's going to have a formation that will effectively wipe out instantly any formation it hits as it will have Aragorn, Gimli and Elendil in it so there will be Epic Rampage with +5 to hit on every roll and then a bunch of other epic heros including a pair of Counselors.

he does agree that a faq is desperately needed.

Addendum.

I was at the bunker tonight for WFB league night (painting Epic of all things ) and one of the local L/WotR players who's also a big SG guy was talking with the redshirt who was in charge of running the Ard Boyz finals. From what I heard, the guy running the Pinwheel of Death won the thing. There were so many questions that needed answering that the bunker guy is going to make a "Bunker WotR FAQ" that will eventually go on the new website that the Chicago Bunker made recently.

Agreed on all counts.

I played in one 40K 'ard boys with a bunch of locals who knew one another. While the lists were dead hard, they werent giant phalluses about playing. I came in dead last and had a great time. I played in the next one in town a couple days later as well as the semi finals and it was one big d0uchebag convention of anal lickers. I quit 40K because of it in fact.

I swore I would never again attend one. WotR is not streamlined enough to be competitive, let alone ultracompetitive even if I feel it is GW's better wargames rules to date. A WotR 'ard boys is just asking for trouble.

Exactly. The other two major systems have had years to develop to the point where they are now. There are many parts of the rules that are accepted as standards and just aren't questioned. You should get closer to that point with WotR before having an Ard Boys for it.

WotR is my favorite of the big three systems too. Sometimes I wonder if the rules really have as many holes and are as poorly written as people say, or if it is just the fact that there isn't a longer history with the game... that shared experience and understanding of the rules that exists with 40k and WHF isn't there quite yet with WotR because it just hasn't been around as long. I'm sure a 2nd edition would do a lot to tweak some of the language to make specific rulings more clear, but I do think the game just needs to age a bit and establish some standards.

An analogy might be in programming languages. Sure - there are many 'rules' that need to be followed, but as a language is used, it's developed by its user base and certain standards and conventions arise that get more people on the same page. Maybe WotR needs a consortium to make some decisions and establish those standards like the web has the W3

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I have never viewed GWs games as tournament games. The lack of clarity in the rules and the lack of balance in the forces make their games a poor choice for a serious tournament. WOTR is particularly bad in these respects. However, it is loads of fun to play, and that is what games are about.

I haven't played any of those other games, but have observed endless discussions about tier scoring for comp etc amongst the locals whenever an event comes up. I take that to mean those games are profoundly unbalanced, since they require parallel systems just to make them (somewhat) workable in a competitve environment.

I think WOTR is fine at a local event, where the TO can just do up their own FAQ, or have it in their head, and everyone will at least be on the same page. Though my back was killing me by the end (alot of movement in WOTR compared to FOW?), I really enjoyed the small event we had here a while ago.

However, I wouldn't travel to attend a 'big' WOTR even until either an agreed community FAQ emerges or GW produces one. Even then, I have seen issues with players exploiting the lack of balance in the lists, so I imagine I will be sticking to FOW as a 'competitive' game. Even then, with my FOW skill, I am really still just playing for fun at that level

That sums up my thoughts on GW games as well.

I am of two minds when I see endless internet discussions (read: chest beating) about how certain lists are good, comps scoring, what units are great, etc. Its the biggest waste of time to do this with games that are not meant to be played on such a competitive level..

The "Pin Wheel of Death" may not be the scariest thing since battlehosts are coming out.... We all know someone is going to find one of those insane multi battlehost lists

And then they'll have no friends with which to enjoy the game

It's too bad the rules allow for such things (since they are much more rare in a system like SBG), but at least you always have the option not to be a turd

Unless you want to win an Ard Boys and cry your friendless self to sleep on a pile of GW merch

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