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| Elven Bows. they arent as good as they once were.... http://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=17710 |
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| Author: | SparedBile [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:41 pm ] |
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I think the elven archers may be five points too expensive per company. All they have over other archers is terror, and that unfortunately (fortunately?) doesn't stop arrows or firebolts. |
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| Author: | theskinnyhobbit [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:07 pm ] |
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Elven shooting by itself is not that powerful. However, when you combine it with other things such as elven heroes and radagast it is really good. One of your complaints is that the enemy close quickly by using at the double. If they do this, then they are taking heroes. Elven heroes should be able to slaughter those guys in close combat. Further, it is unlikely that all of their formations have heroes, thus you will not face their entire force in hand to hand combat at once. If they do have lots of heroes then there will not be as many troops to fight. Terror also helps keep other troops from charging the elves. All of this is not to say that elven shooting is the best thing ever, as corsair crossbows are better. Just that even shooting is very deadly. |
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| Author: | Lost Cardolan [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:22 am ] |
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I'd bet when the games developers were writing WotR (and more specifically, the elves in the game) they were hoping to avoid creating the same dynamic present in the SBG that led to elves being the army that deployed on their table edge and had the general strategy of moving backwards every turn and shooting. I agree that the elves need a little more oomph over the hordes, but perhaps that sumthin' extra should be a little more subtle--maybe the only edge they need is making it so their bows don't suffer a -1 strength at long range...? In my head that makes sense; it's indicative that their bows are better--better in that they're more reliable. |
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| Author: | Finli O'Tengo [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:02 pm ] |
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agincourt777 wrote: no, they were aiming for the endless chasms all along really. they actually showed real skill by managing to hit their intended target with deadly accuracy whilst making sure that the fellowship were safe. legolas and aragorn, despite not being hit (naturally seeing as the gobbos werent aiming for them), thought that it was friendly fire and mistakingly shot back at them. R.I.P poor goblins. sniff. 
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:17 pm ] |
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Lost Cardolan wrote: I agree that the elves need a little more oomph over the hordes, but perhaps that sumthin' extra should be a little more subtle--maybe the only edge they need is making it so their bows don't suffer a -1 strength at long range...?
In my head that makes sense; it's indicative that their bows are better--better in that they're more reliable. I like that idea. Did you have just Elf bows in mind? Or all longbows? |
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| Author: | Lost Cardolan [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:13 am ] |
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General Elessar wrote: Lost Cardolan wrote: I agree that the elves need a little more oomph over the hordes, but perhaps that sumthin' extra should be a little more subtle--maybe the only edge they need is making it so their bows don't suffer a -1 strength at long range...? In my head that makes sense; it's indicative that their bows are better--better in that they're more reliable. I like that idea. Did you have just Elf bows in mind? Or all longbows? I think just the elves should get something like that...call it elven magic and all that. |
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| Author: | Luminary [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:53 pm ] |
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I don't think any "magic" is necessary. Aerodynamic projectiles don't lose momentum in the air, there is no "loss of hitting power" like it says in the book. The further you shoot an arrow, the more energy you need to apply to it. This same increase in energy gets pierced into orc-brains. So the further you shoot, the more powerful your shot. Not less. So the elves don't need to use magic to increase the power of their arrows at range, they just need to cast off the curse of the rules. As far as just elves, or all longbows, I'd have to say just elves. I can get Blackroot Vale longbowmen for 25 points a pop already, they don't need a boost. Not to mention the Grey Company. |
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| Author: | SparedBile [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:53 am ] |
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Luminary wrote: I don't think any "magic" is necessary. Aerodynamic projectiles don't lose momentum in the air, there is no "loss of hitting power" like it says in the book. The further you shoot an arrow, the more energy you need to apply to it. This same increase in energy gets pierced into orc-brains. So the further you shoot, the more powerful your shot. Not less.
That's incorrect. The friction between the air molecules and the arrow would slow it down, so at half way it would be stronger than at full distance. Gravity's also working against the arrow, slowing it down. So, the further you shoot, the less powerful your shot, to the extent that the arrow wouldn't pierce orc-brains. Look up Newton's 3 laws of motion and Galileo's concept of inertia, it'll help you understand. |
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| Author: | Adanedhel [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:05 am ] |
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SparedBile wrote: That's incorrect. The friction between the air molecules and the arrow would slow it down, so at half way it would be stronger than at full distance. Gravity's also working against the arrow, slowing it down. So, the further you shoot, the less powerful your shot, to the extent that the arrow wouldn't pierce orc-brains. Look up Newton's 3 laws of motion and Galileo's concept of inertia, it'll help you understand. Not quite, gravity does not slow it down, it just pulls it downwards, that's a difference, it actually accelerates it down 
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:12 am ] |
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SparedBile wrote: The friction between the air molecules and the arrow would slow it down, so at half way it would be stronger than at full distance.
I can't imagine friction with the air having much effect on an arrow... |
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| Author: | agincourt777 [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:12 pm ] |
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too... much... science aaaaaa! |
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| Author: | Lost Cardolan [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:46 pm ] |
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General Elessar wrote: SparedBile wrote: The friction between the air molecules and the arrow would slow it down, so at half way it would be stronger than at full distance. I can't imagine friction with the air having much effect on an arrow... --You're kidding right? You get that sprinters and cyclists shave their arms and legs so that their hair doesn't slow them down, right? |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:58 pm ] |
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Lost Cardolan wrote: General Elessar wrote: SparedBile wrote: The friction between the air molecules and the arrow would slow it down, so at half way it would be stronger than at full distance. I can't imagine friction with the air having much effect on an arrow... --You're kidding right? You get that sprinters and cyclists shave their arms and legs so that their hair doesn't slow them down, right? Maybe I didn't put that right. Yes, friction would have an effect, but a very small and un-significant effect. |
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| Author: | SparedBile [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:12 pm ] |
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Not as small an effect as you think at the distances they're firing the arrows. There's also wind to factor in and that would send the arrow off course or if blowing at it's front slow it down, blow it off course, or both. My point with the gravity was that it would pull it down, and an arrow in the thigh is a bit easier to get over in the middle of combat than an arrow in your neck. |
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