Hello,

Today, I used Isengard and fought my friend's Dwarf army in a 1000 points game. I've been a SBG player for a few years and today was my first ever WOTR battle. It was completely awesome. There were many memorable moments such as Saruman incinerating Dwarves left and right and even killing the King's Champion with a tremor spell! My favourite part of the battle was when my two formations of berserkers charged into Gimli and his two companies of Khazad guards. I got some nice strength and charging bonuses while Gimli went on an epic rampage. The result was that all 3 formations were completely wiped out.

The game was a rollercoaster ride with many ups and downs. Somehow, I eventually won it. However, there were a few situations where rules had to be discussed. We eventually agreed on everything for our game but I want to check these things with you guys. I don't want it to be a hollow victory.

Firstly, there was a situation with the overlord rule. When the berserkers and Gimli's unit were within charge range of each other, my opponent had priority. Therefore, I knew I had to charge if possible because berserkers gain massive benefits for charging. I used a point of Saruman's might to declare a heroic charge with one of my berserker formations. The debate here was about whether a hero with might is needed in the unit benefiting from Saruman's might point. I'd say there doesn't have to be because it represents Saruman giving orders. Therefore, a captain isn't necessarily needed to relay these orders to the troops. However, the wording of the rule sort of implies that a hero is needed in the other formation. We agreed that Saruman could do this for any unit within range as long as he paid the appropriate points of might.

Secondly, I got lucky in the fist turn of the game and permanently shattered the shields of Murin's legendary formation with Saruman. However, my opponent still used the special "lock shields" rule to raise his base defence. Nothing in the rules prohibited him from doing this despite him having no shields to lock. I let him use this rule.

Thirdly, my opponent managed to roll 9 sixes on 27 dice (damn it!) when shooting at my crossbowmen and so pushed them back as a company had been lost. Although they hadn't actually moved in the move phase, were my crossbowmen still allowed to shoot back because they'd technically moved that turn? We agreed that I could still shoot beause we assumed that the crossbows were "loaded" in the move phase (hence the lack of movement).

Fourthly, the King's champion is a monster but not tecnically a hero. Can he still use heroic actions or can he only use the epic actions shown in his profile? We decided he couldn't perform heroic actions. In the same way, we decided he couldn't make "At the double" moves.

Lastly, on a point unrelated to our battle specifically, we were discussing Galadhrim knights and their extra attacks over all other cavarly companies. Given their high courage and fight values, I was wondering if the number of attacks was actually a typo and meant to be the same as all other cavalry companies. What do you think? They seem a little cheap for their points or is the low defence enough of a disadvantage?

I am awaiting GWs faq on the Overlord rule.

By the letter of the rules it was OK for him to lock shields, but I don't think it was what was intended.

I don't think that being driven back counts as movement.

The ruling on the King's Champion you got wrong, but three out of four is not bad for your first game. The box on page 67 explains that if a monster has might then they are counted as being a hero.

I do not think the number of attacks for the elven knights is a typo. Their low strength is their biggest weakness.

Hi Fred075,

We play it that Overlord gives the might to formations allowing heroic actons. However, this is a grey area and is granted to be as permissive as possible. Personally I think it 'should' work that way but suspect that only heroes are meant to call heroic actions. If you have it wrong, you share the mistake with many other players.

I think it is stretching the rules to lock shields when you don't have shields. Rules can't cover all situations.

Only being driven back in the movement phase would affect crossbow shooting. There is a spell with that effect but by my reading of the rules you could just keep the xbow within 1" of a friendly unit and negate the effect.

In a GW battle/tactic report I read somewhere (last months WD I think)the player did not not have a capatin and received the Overlord effect - think that was berserkers to!

How can you lock shields without shields! If in doubt with a rule use a bit of common sense or logic.

The Ghaladrim stats are ok as their strength and defence is abysmal considering their points cost.

Wow really? Those battle reports are useful and I should read more of them then.

The Overlord rule in the book seemed pretty clear to me in that you need might in your unit in order to use it. It says that you use the overlord's might "rather than your own". That seems like a pretty strong implication to me that you need to have a store of might in the unit somewhere (ie a hero).

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It sounds like a really good game!

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Thanks for all of your replies guys. I guess the Overlord rule is confusing everyone then. It probably means it'll be addressed in an upcoming FAQ soon then.

I know it doesn't make sense to lock air instead of the shields but my opponent tried to justify it by saying the formation was bracing itself. It's feeble I know but the rules didn't stop him and he did pay a point of might for it. Consequently, I was in no position to stop him and I had no choice but to let him as the rule was right there in the rulebook (albeit, badly written).

If the battle report agrees with me about the berserkers and the crossbows can still shoot after being driven back, I guess my victory wasn't really hollow then. Although he might have killed another company or two if his King's Champion was used as a hero like it should have been. I am definitely looking forward to play more WOTR games. Hopefully, an FAQ will come soon and make it flow even better.

I agree. How is the unit supposed to call a Heroic action without a Hero in it?

Why should an Overlord have to shout over to a captain to tell him to tell his formation to do something? Could the Overlord not tell the formation himself?
I think the rule is to benefit formations with no other access to might, such as Berserkers, and to add to the leadership qualities of certain heroes.

Yeah I like that interpretation too! It always seemed like a kind of weak ability to me.

Even so, I just get hung up on the "rather than their own" part of the rule. If they dont' have any might of their own, they don't have the option to use an overlord's "rather" than their own.

*sigh* Such a great game underneath all these little annoyances IMO. Almost one whole year now since release and still no FAQ. I really hope the Battlehosts supplement is a partial FAQ with fun new hobby stuff.

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Hi im the dwarf player he was playing against

I wouldnt take every situation in WD battle reports seriously as exactly how the rules are meant to be as before i've noticed some mistakes in them, mostly for fantsasy though that could be becasue i dont read 40k reports and there's not as many LoTR...

My first time actually using dwarves in WoTR which is why i didnt realise king's champions could at the double and i forgot his epic duel ability or i would hopefully have splatted saruman into a fine red mist and lots of pieces of flesh covering the nearby uruks.

I know it's pushing it a bit far with the lock shields rule but i tend to lose against him and so i try and do all i can to give myself a better chance and they can still brace themselves ready for the charge and cover each other with their axes instead of with their shields so that they are better at working together and defending each other than normal dwarves.

Elves are my other army and i've used them before in WoTR (although our store is a dwarf stronghold and elves just cant really hurt the stunties enough to avoid getting chopped in half by all their strength 4) and the extra attacks make practically no difference from what i have found.