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1500 Galadhrim (warming up for ToS)
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Author:  Dannis [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  1500 Galadhrim (warming up for ToS)
I had a wonderful time last week at the HobbyCamp in WarhammerWorld. I have increased my Galadhrim force with a couple of boxes warriors, and several other stuff. I finally have an idea how this game goes and thus more view on how the units work.
Seeing Throne of Skulls come up in the weekend of 13th November in Warhammer World, we are thinking of going back to England if we get our armies ready.
Anyway, this was the kinda list I was thinking:

- Epic Hero -
175 - Celeborn

- Common Formation -
200 - 4 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + shield
150 - 3 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + Shield
100 - 2 Companies Galadhrim Archer Regiment
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows
080 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband

- Rare Formation -
180 - 3 Companies Galadhrim Knights + Shield + Hornblower

- Legendary Formation -
240 - Gildor's Household + 2 Companies

Allies:
- Epic Hero-
160 Radagast the Brown

- Common Formation -
125 - Ent


Until so far the max. point game I have played was 750. All games I played included Celeborn and Gildor, and boy I love the magic. That's also why I'd like to include Radagast, got both Celeborns and Gildors spells, and epic tranquility is nasty as well.
The Ent is included to have another Ambusher, and well.. what's not to like about monsters in WotR?

Any C&C appreciated
Author:  spuds4ever [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Personally, I don't like monsters as I'm a fan of very consistent models and monsters are pretty much as inconsistent as you can get in WotR. I would say that seems solid. I would get rid of the 2 company formation of wood elves without longbows and up Gildor's Household up to 4 companies as 2 companies is quite a waste for so many points spent on legendary formation's starting cost. Maybe only 3 as your formation won't fit so many in defensible terrain and that would limit your ambushing options.
Author:  Dannis [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks.
Well I still haven't tried the Ent out in games, but I will sure keep this in mind. Also, Gildor's household's formation is 3 companies big already. 80 points extra for the 2 companies. I keep them at 3 as 4 would probably be to big, just as you stated, for defensible terrain.

I also made an calculation error, as the knights with the hornblower actually cost 165 (I added 5 points per comp for shields, but they get them for free exchanging the bows).
I'm thinking of removing the Galadhrim archers, and put another 2 Woodelf archer companies in place. These can't be shot at, and the D 3/4 would only matter in CC and I hope to keep them out of that.
I have removed the 2 companies of WE warband, which then gave me a total of 105 points to spare. I added in another 2 companies of Knights /w Shields.
Should I keep the Knights like this, or make a big formation of 5?


Changing this would make the list like this:

- Epic Hero -
175 - Celeborn

- Common Formation -
200 - 4 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + shield
150 - 3 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + Shield
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows

- Rare Formation -
165 - 3 Companies Galadhrim Knights + Shield + Hornblower
100 - 2 Companies Galadhrim Knights + Shield

- Legendary Formation -
240 - Gildor's Household + 2 Companies

Allies:
- Epic Hero-
160 Radagast the Brown

- Common Formation -
125 - Ent

----
1495


Edit:
Btw, I see that I posted it in the wrong section, if any mod could please help me out? ;)
Author:  General Elessar [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
It looks very good. The one thing I would do would be to put the two Knight formations together and give them a banner.
Author:  Dannis [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ah yes, thanks! Didn't think of the banner. It is quiet vital that I don't roll a 1 on the charges... :oops:
I made the Knight formation into 4 companies, and took the counterspell Fortune, as I don't really know what to break up from this list for the banner, and I definitely want to try the Ent out a couple of times before discarding him.

- Epic Hero -
175 - Celeborn

- Common Formation -
200 - 4 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + shield
150 - 3 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + Shield
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows

- Rare Formation -
240 - 4 Companies Galadhrim Knights + Shield + Hornblower + Banner

- Legendary Formation -
240 - Gildor's Household + 2 extra Companies

Allies:
- Epic Hero-
160 Radagast the Brown

- Common Formation -
125 - Ent

Fortune:
025 - Counterspell
----
1495
Author:  Sanem [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Nice list, I like it.

Wood Elves with bows are way supirior to Galadhrim archers: Galad D4 is useful against S1 shooting, but WE are better with their cloaks. In combat the D4 will help little. The WE however have throwing weapons, making them an excellent skirmish unit.
I would advise splitting at least one WE unit into two units: this gives you some expendable, very mobile units.

I use my Knights with bows, they put out a scary amount of shots, and like to run away from the enemy so their D4 is no problem.

With shields and Celeborn, 4 companies on the charge hit first with 56 to 76 attacks, even on a 6+ that'll do 10+ wounds, and with epic defence they get D7.
HOWEVER, this is a one-trick pony, because the average unit of shield infantry will absorb these losses with little effort, but the enemy counter-attack (assault, magic or shooting) will do serious damage to your 300+ points, 16 wounds D5 unit. Also note that you have very little Might, which is vital for getting that charge or running away.
But experience beats theory, so do let us know how they work out.

Ents rule! They are supirior to all other non-hero monsters for only 25-50 points more, D8 is great against shooting and S3 close combat, 8-12 S8 attacks hurts, especially against a flank, and they'll give the enemy serious pause before he charges into your otherwise fragile Elves.
Just watch out for enemy magic, and Khamul :x.
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sanem wrote:
In combat the D4 will help little.


What are you talking about?! There's a huge difference between D3 and D4! Strength 3 is the most common, and with that you need 4's against D3 and 5's against D4, that's a 66% increase.
Author:  Dannis [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yea that's correct, but when the bowmen get into combat 'without' my permission, than they are probably screwed, no matter if they are WoodElves or Galadhrim.
Other than that, I prefer the WE archers, since the cloaks prevent enemy fire (setting them up on some hill will be nasty).
I will try my knights first without bows. I'd rather have the D5 first as that means 6's when I'm in half range of enemy bowfire. Also I might counter any enemy cavalry with the knights, meaning 5's to wound my Knights instead of 4's.

Sanem, I know I don't have that much might (8 in total), but the 2 Wilderness casters should prevent allot of enemy charging if I play it right (Entangle).


And again, I have spotted calculation errors in my list.. darn it, why can't I not make any mistakes in calculating? :sad:
The Knights are 250 points instead of 240, meaning I have to change my list again since it is 5 points too much.
Although I have read that not everyone is fond about the WE, and the D of them aren't great, I have made some alternations:

- Epic Hero -
175 - Celeborn

- Common Formation -
200 - 4 Companies Galadhrim Regiment + shield
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows
090 - 2 Companies WoodElf Warband + Longbows
120 - 3 Companies WoodElf Warband

- Rare Formation -
300 - 5 Companies Galadhrim Knights + Shield + Hornblower + Banner


- Legendary Formation -
240 - Gildor's Household + 2 Companies

Allies:
- Epic Hero-
160 Radagast the Brown

- Common Formation -
125 - Ent

----
1495

I will try this list out first (letting the WE's walk infront of the other formations to prevent enemy shooting on the Galadhrim.. :twisted: ). Or perhaps I only field the WE's as a starter and let everything else in reserve (with the heroes already on the table for the magic).

My friend will come next week to play a few games (Rohan). And our gaming club doesn't have that many WotR players so testing vs other nasty casters like Khamul probably won't happen.
Author:  Sanem [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:58 am ]
Post subject: 
On D4: the point is that if your archers are stuck in combat, they WILL die, and D4 will make little difference (other than costing extra points).

WE with bows have different strategic options to Galadhrim archers: they are basically invulnerable to enemy shooting, and their throwing weapons allow them to move at full speed, outmanouvering the enemy, and still make a shooting attack (a slightly supirior one compared to bows).

Galadhrim archers can only stand their ground, shoot, and take the charge. They won't be able to run effectively like WE's, or take the hits like archers from other races (D4 and 50 points). With epic defence they come close to Galadhrim with shields, but it'll cost you precious Might points (and doesn't help against shooting or magic).
Although I guess with Terror and F5, it could work. I've seen massed MT archers with their D5 at 30 points seriously challenge my Morannon Orcs. Has anyone tried this with Galadhrim archers?

Dannis, on unarmed Wood Elves, I would advise splitting the unit into three 1-company formations. They'll be "cheap" enough to sacrifice, and with cloaks and throwing weapons to can run into the enemy line, slowing them down, forcing terror tests, attacking weak flanks, and if you're lucky sneaking past his line and threatening his rear.

And thank you, I think you just helped me find a use for my 64 Wood Elves (without bows), other than sticking shields on them and using them as Galadhrim/Guardians.

Let us know how it works out, hup hup Lothlorien 8).
Author:  General Elessar [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would swap the Wood Elf Warband (three companies) for Galadhrim; I really don't see D3 working in a close combat formation...
Author:  Dannis [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well for 3 warbands I can get only 2 companies of Galadhrim. And just as Sanem suggests, the Warbands could really become nasty units, since they are basically invulnerable to shooting. The 3 single companies could protect the Galadhrim, walking up front (to prevent charges) or protect flanks and such, or even sneak past and attack flanks themselves. Thanks for the idea Sanem! Haven't thought of playing them that way, will be sure to try that out next week!
Author:  Sanem [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I found this out in my last battle: my enemy's formation of Uruk-Hai spent two turns standing still, because charging one of my one-company formations of Wood Elves would result in my Knights and Ent counter-charging his flank/rear. which gave my Wood Elves the time to flank the Uruk-Hai and use throwing weapons on their fragile flank (but they moved too far, and the Uruk-Hai turned around and charged them, my only losses of the game :P)

I've been thinking of other strategies:

- in the opening turns of your game, let your enemy move first. than move the Wood Elves up to 9" from the enemy (outside charge range). than if you get priority, move them up to 1" from the enemy. the enemy formation can no longer move this turn, and all enemies within 6" have their move value halved. in the charge phase, let him make the charge, he might fail his Terror test (use Command magic to reduce his C)

- if the enemy gets close, put one of your WE companies in front of him, shielding your Galadhrim from a charge. however, deploy them in such a way that charging them will force the enemy to show his flank to the Galadhrim. counter-charge the enemy flank (works great with Ents or Knights too)

- these tactics work even better with the more mobile Galadhrim Knights, assuming the enemy doesn't have bolt throwers or offensive magic
Author:  Luvdiscgolf [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Ents rock!
I absolutely LOVE Ents and while I only have one, I've borrowed a second and fielded two in armies alongside Dwarves and Rohan and they have always done very well for me. They're tough, strong and move pretty quickly, and there's always the option to use them as ambushers if there are woods on the battlefield.
Author:  General Elessar [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've never used an Ent, but I fought against one once and it was rubbish. It died in the second turn or something.
Author:  Dannis [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well it depends on what you were playing and what the opponent did with the Ent. I'm not planning on letting the Ent walk up front solo and let it be attacked by all kinds of different companies.
Still, when looking at the average infantry strenght, it is 3. So that means it would need 6/4's to get wounds. With its R2 it can soak up some damage a turn or 2 before it would get smacked down. But as I said, I'm not planning on letting the Ent charge on alone.
Author:  Luvdiscgolf [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Ents
Seeing an Ent go down quickly in one game is certainly no indication that it is going to go down quickly in every game therafter. In all fairness, anything can go down quick with a couple of good dice rolls. I've had an Ent go down quick in only one game that I've played while in all the other games it has done things like kill a Mordor Troll with a boulder throw to the head, annihilate a 3-company formation of Orcs, and multiple times I've destroyed an enemy company and made the rest of the formation run away, which often takes them out of the action for a couple of turns; that in and of itself can be very valuable.

To the OP of the topic, I noticed you were considering fielding Radagast in your army; I have played him several times and have been impressed with his performance on the battlefield each time. Some of the spells he has are quite useful and his Epic Tranquility can just really mess with your opponent's well-laid plans. :)

Good luck!
Author:  General Elessar [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know Ents can be effective, but they, like all monsters, are very unreliable. Because of that, I personally wouldn't field one, but someone else might consider the risk worthwhile.
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