"Uruks would only need 5+ to wound the giant so that means they would probably get about 2 or 3 hits on the giant counting that the giant was in contact with 2 companies."

the giant is a monster so he can only be in contact with 1c

(how do you quote someone properly?)

Click "quote".

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

ohhhh the button on the top right of a post....

Bottom right.

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

No... It's the top right.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Mine's definetly bottom right.

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Yep, definitely bottom right. Look at the very top of the page, is the quote button on the top of the first post or not?

I guess its different for other ppl, on someones post the quote button is on the top right for me...

Hey it turns out that there is a another tourny on the 4th of Dec, since I havent bought much for awhile i cant make a whole lot of changes so im reviving this topic.

this is what im thinking of taking:
(updated)

Durburz
Druzhag
a nazgul

6c goblins, shields
5c gobs shields
5c wargs
1c bows

Dragon, magic
7c blackshields

buhrudr

tokens of terror
1495pts, 14pts of might, 25companies, 3 epics, 8 lvls of magic

Now here is where i need help:
1. what nazgul to take (not khamul though)
2. if the 5c gobs w/ shields should be 7c gobs w/ nothing
3. where to deploy the shade

in the past the blackshields have done their job of tanking whatever the enemy throws at me, and with str from corruption and the shade, I should have the same F, much higher Str and far more attacks and companies. only stuff like large F of morranons w/ str from corruption, khamul, mumaks and epic rampage + aragon/ elendil.
the dragon is very iffy, but I still dont have much else to fill in pts for him. in the past he has done an amazing job of distracting lots of enemy shooting, elites (he took on mass trolls... but forgot to use him magic :/), and most importantly, taking at least 3 objectives in seize the prize in every game (last time he heroic moved and took 3 at once ). OH!!! and also very important, his ability to fly + spells of ruin + lvl3 = carnage (tremor has wiped out sooooo much stuff). oh, and another thing, he's great at hero hunting as well (though last time saruman survived the duel!). its a long list for him, but costing a third of my army.... (and he gives away so many victory pts if he's killed...)
durburz and druzhag are amazing for obvious reasons
the wargs usually distract, charge in, kill some stuff, get hurt alot, then next turn get killed (but for 100pts they distract at least 300pts from the enemy ). they can do really well if the enemy wouldnt focus them down so much, but thats ok
the 2 large blocks of gobs are great simply cause they are big and hard to kill (and from what i know, big= better ).
buhrdur hasnt been doing well, mostly cause i ambush and forget about him, so he comes in too late and gets killed by bows, or there is a lazy unit at the back that kills him, but thats also cause i put him in really bad places (right behind a F, where i should put him behind the terrain so they have to wonder around it, then i move at the double around the terrain into the Formation, or if they go into the terrain i run away. Ill keep him cause he's got potential (i need that ES to kill of heros when durburz cant)
the small F of bows are there for druzhag to use epic cowardice into, shoot trolls (have killed one before), go into terrain and provide some support, and stop/ slow ambushers

my set up is (from left to right): 1c bows/ 6c gobs/ 7c blackshields/ shade/ 5or7c gobs. 5c wargs. buhrdur goes where needed at the time, other 1c bows are behind, and the dragon starts in the middleish behind and then flies over. although im not really sure where i want the shade to be

I really dont like how imba khamul is, so i wont take him. although i could take him and not use his reflect (but im really competitive, so might end up using it). I also want to at least try out another nazgul
nazgul options: khamul no. undying, not worth it. the tainted, dont need it. dark marshal, shade makes fight bonus usless, dont need inspiring leader. shadowlord, dont need it. dwimmerlaik... mabye, could protect druzhag if shade not nearby. betrayer, very good. knight of umbar, dont need him, cant use fight (shade) and str from corruption is enough str. so betrayer looks like it, but the dwimmerlaik will add character to my army....

please help/ comment (and answer the questions)

Why are you taking one company infantry formations? It's pointless.

Definetly keep the shields on Goblins, as opposed to more companies.

The Betrayer and Dwimmerlaik are both good choices, but I'd also consider the Undying. At 1500pts I'm expecting 95% of the armies to have Magic, making his free Will of Iron very useful.

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

I did miss that about the undying, i I think ill try him (even though the betrayer would help more)

the 1c: really help when ambushers come (they will keep ambushers tied up for a while), and very importantly: they are somewhere for druzhag to epic cowardice into, and they still kill stuff (even trolls). but ill reduce it to one so i can take tokens of terror

and i realized that druzhag and undying need the shade the most (anti-duel) so ill rearrange them
oh, and undying will be in the 6c gobs, druzhag in the 5c gobs, and durburz in the 7c blackshields

7c blackshields/ 6c gobs/ shade/ 5or7c gobs. 5c wargs.

not sure about that as my main unit is now on the flank and not in the thick of things, although my magic is now covering everything. i might have the wargs switch to the other side of my battle line, but then they dont get any inspiring leader from druzhag

1c formations have never even wounded a troll with archery in my experience (or any other combat monster for that matter). 1c just can't break reselience 2 with anything higher than 4 defence.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Yeah, they'd have to be pretty lucky... However, I've lost an Ent to a single round of shooting from two coy of Goblins before. That shouldn't happen 'on average'. but is still pretty likely to occur. With three coy, you have a pretty reliable chance of rolling on the table.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

the 1c bows arent there to kill stuff, more for druzhag to retreat and block the flanks of my main units. im just saying that they can be used to pick at stuff (and i they have killed a troll once!)

It was also suggested to not get buhrdur as he dies easily, this is true but with a bit more careful use you could keep him alive. do you guys think that its better to get 6c wargs instead of him?

buhrdur vs wargs
buhrdur
pros
ES/duel combo, monster, high str, hero, can ambush, terror
cons
dies easily

wargs
pros
6c (can wether hits), prowlers, cavalry
cons
cant at the double, cant take out heros, needs the charge to be effective, courage 2

please help, both have big pros and cons, wargs kill troops, buhrdur kills heros...

well i had to put in my list last night, this is what Im using (although i can change it if i want to)


Durburz 70
Druzhag 100
The Dwimmerlaik (allied) 125

7c goblins 140
6c Goblins with shields 120
6c Goblins with shields 120
5c wargs 100
5c wargs 100
1c goblins with bows 20

Dragon with magic 475
Shade (allied) 100

Fate: tokens of terror 25

1495pts

they wont allow me to use my gobs as blackshields (even though they look quite different from the rest)

I would drop some companies and take 2 captains in your formations. Normally I wouldn't take any command models in Wotr but with the addition of a shade they are very strong. Your captains can now act as assasins. Much people take strong hero's with epic strike to kill othe rhero's but with a shade your captain of 50 points has much chance that he will kill a gandalf of 200 points.

You don't want to use the betrayer or khamul the easterling then use the knight of umbar. Much people play with mumak or trolls or strong hero's. When you have have the knight of umbar you can have a formation of goblins with strength 7 when your enemy has trolls.

Hope this helps.

PS: I always liked to use Burdhur in my army. He has not the strongest profile but he causes fear to your enemy. Not the rule but the idea that there is a troll hero somewere hiding behind their lines. This always makes my enemys to cause mistakes.

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

well 2 capt is alot of points, i would have to drop a formation of wargs to do it. you do have a good point about how the shade makes them more worth while, but right now id rather having a another whole formation. my army plays out like a hammer and anvil (and the dragon is a sledge hammer that needs no anvil ). after seeing some of the GT winning list i noticed that its better to not take capt, you can get so much more stuff if you drop all command.

the knight of umbar is a nice idea, but 1. cant use fight cause of the shade. 2. can use str from corruption on the gobs if i need to. 3. everyone uses him cause his is one of the OP nazgul. 4. cause of #3 i never see many of the other nazgul, so i want to try him out

my army isnt painted much so i dont have any real chance of winning the tourny, so I dont want to take all the powergamer stuff, but if I have a chance, i might consider taking him. (i haven't dropped the idea completely)

buhrdur is nice, but i already have a dragon and a shade, so better to get more core troops

What sort of restriction is that? If they allow you to play with unpainted, why shouldn't they allow you to win?

This latest list looks good. There might be a mistake though:

You mean 7c goblins with shields for 140 or 7c goblins for 105?

Instead of Tokens of Terror I find Curse of Morgoth better for 25 points - it can be a difference between getting an extra HtK roll on your Dragon or it can alter the 6 rolled on the Shade to a 5, keeping him alive.

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Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

thats a really good point about curse of morgoth on the htk table, i was always thinking about rolls to charge and stuff

and i dont have much of a chance to win cause you get points based on how well its painted
0 is no painting or not much, 1 is half ur stuff or terrible paint job, 2 is average, 3 is really nice. i usally get a 1, so i miss 6pts (take the score and times 3) which makes a big different when top score is about 27ish and average is 21ish

and yes, its supposed to be 7c gobs with shields

Hey, well I had the tourny yesterday and i thought Id leave a bit of feedback for you guys

this is the list I took:
Durburz 70
Druzhag 100
The Dwimmerlaik (allied) 125

7c goblins with shields 140
6c Goblins with shields 120
6c Goblins with shields 120
5c wargs 100
5c wargs 100
1c goblins with bows 20

Dragon with magic 475
Shade (allied) 100

Fate: curse of morgoth 25
1495pts

firstly Ill say that this tourny was at a GW, and we didnt have very many ppl come this time (only 7!) and there were only 4 ppl that seemed to really know what they were doing. 2 of them were guys from my club (one took gondor w/ no magic, but lots of might, the other watchers of katara battlehost w/ dalamir and khamul (only 3 might but alot of stuff)), sadly i didnt get to go up against either of them as they some of the best in the area, the other 2 is me and this guy about 17 named Cailen, but he still made some big errors. the other 3 ppl were 2 old guys and this other guy whos about 17 as well.

ill try to be brief in the bat reps as i could rant on about tons of stuff
first game against Cailen who had 4c GC, 4c Ogsciliath vets, 4c rangers, 3c and 5c of knights of MT, with gandalf and aragon (both were in GC most of the time). oh and glorfindel
malstrom, the high ground.
most of my stuff came on the bottom or left, and most of his stuff came of the right (nazgul and 7c gobs came on right, but wings of terror to safety). pretty much he spent too much time shooting while i cleaned up the 3c knights (my 6c gobs came in behind on the left XD) and made a battle line (now it was like battle for the pass). the dragon charged the GC in the flank and heroic fight (gandalf epic def), leaving them with 1.7c of GC left, and not putting a scratch on my dragon. cause of pall of night, and the threat of a dragon of the flank, he never charged me w/ his big formations. in the end i moved my gobs and dragon on the hill, but there was like 3mm of space for him on there, so he epic journeyed.... (dwimmerlaik failed to stop it). dragon was F0 cause of gandalf, didnt want to charge them w/ dragon cause duels from gandalf and aragon could REALLY hurt, and aragons company gets +2 to wound.... so it was a draw (but if the game went longer i would of wiped him out). oh, and the shade failed to show up this game
when i got home i did the math and i think if gandalf also called a duel as well as aragon they could of killed the dragon (if i charged who ever won that fight would win the game cause of all the points we would of given (dragon and aragon and gandalf are expensive, so whichever side gets wiped out loses...))
that game was annoying, I pretty much had the game but forgot about epic journy, if i remembered that i would of completly covered the hill w/ gobs
oh, and glorfindel was annoying that game, he heroic fight from wargs into gobs, then dueling druzhag... (which i found out is illegal, duels have to be called at teh start of the phase...)

the next 2 games were against the old guys
next was battle for the pass, sieze the prize against gondor again
the 2nd game was a bit silly, the dragon ripped his army apart. he charged it w/ small formations of knights alone..... so they got wiped out and this big 6c got flanked by the dragon.... so they lose 3c in 1 fight phase. after that i jsut had my whole army attack at once, and annihilated him. I only lost 1c of wargs that i summoned and the shade just stood in the back of my army.... didnt need to worry about duels cause they used all the might to resist magic

3rd game was shieldwalls, field of swords against isengard
Id vs'd this guys a few times before, so he knew how dangerous my army was. i had him go first but he just stayed there. everything of mine moved up, the dragon right im front of his morgul knights. knowing he couldnt let the dragon charge he had the knights charge him, heroic fight and i wiped out the knights. he moved his army almost to the back of the board to avoid the dragon getting behind. this is where the shade got its time to shine. his isengard trolls were useless cause of the shade (3 attacks from them lol), so i wiped them out, lurtz was usless as ES wouldnt work and he couldnt call the duel in the first place (dwimmerlaik), but the dragon and durburz who were out of the shades range called duels, ES, heroic fight on his 5c uruks w/ saruman and lurtz. we called it there as he had no chance and had barely hurt me (killed 4c of wargs and 2c of gobs)

at first i was happy i was going up against the old guys, but then it turned out to be no challenge at all. hopefully Ill be able to vs the other 2 next time at the club. that way I'd get to see how good my army really is.

what i learned:
blackshields are good, but not that necessary, not having them didnt make a difference
the dragon + heroic fight annihilates everythings (use durburz's OL so u can use the dragons might to resist magic or for when the dragon is out of range of durburz)
the shade is REALLY good if you can get him in the right place, if he's in a bad place he could ruin the game for you. (I want to keep him for now)
the dwimmerlaiks rule is really good, everyone take khamul/betrayer/ KoU cause its easy to see how good they are. the dwimmerlaik is just as good (some ppl stopped using heroics cause of him, so even if he does fail to block, just his presence will deter ppl)
OMG the dragon is sooo good, cause he is flying is easy to avoid dangerous stuff, and most ppl dont have really elite stuff to take him down, i reckon everyone should have a really elite unit. an army made up of average stuff just cant deal with the dragon (although its still possible, last tourny the dragon almost died to the guy in my 3rd game (sarumans magic)). sure he costs 1/3 of my army, but he is just as good as 1/3 of my army put together

I said that my army is like a hammer and anvil, well its more like a nuke and anvil (dragon being the nuke )
Edit: i just counted the approximate points that the dragon killed through out the tourny: 1200pts

so ya. thanks General Elessar, spuds4ever and Blackmist