First, Durburz is 60 points, not 65, so you can get an extra goblin.

With goblins you really *must* max numbers. Any army can match the first army's numbers, even elves; and any army, especially elves, will be able to take a huge toll with their archers. In the first list you have no archers of your own, so you'll be lucky to get into combat with more than 30. Plus, with elves at least, they are brave enough to feed one or two to a monster to keep them occupied while the rest clean house.

In the first list I'd drop the troll, and either max out the rest with archers and/or prowlers, or take a bat and 9 more archers. With the +1 from above, that gives you 10 archers, so you can volley. Goblin archers do suck, but with volleying their chances are the same as everyone else. Personally I like the idea of the bats...paired with Durburz he can take on most heroes (at least the non-terror-causing ones).

Not sure about the second list. It's hard to fit 2 trolls in 500 points and still get the right mix of numbers, might, etc. Trolls tend to be arrow magnets. The 5 points saved from Durburz could give your captain a shield, which might extend his life a bit. Or drop the captain and take bats, or drop the captain and take 5 more goblins, and give each troll a chain.

I was going to start another thread, but saw this and decided to add to it.

I'm also starting on a Moria Goblin army, only 500pts. I realize the shortcoming of it but at the moment my friend only has 500pts of a "good" army. When he comes around to getting more I will use the rest of my secreted horde.

My list is as follows::
Cpt w/shld (40pts)
Shaman (45pts)
Troll w/chain (85)
20 shields (100)
9 spears (45)
10 bows (50)
8 Prowlers (4 w/shlds & 4 w/2hd) (56)
50 models.

Total: 421pts. Way off from 500pts, but I can't see adding more...besides adding Durburz(60) which only adds 25pts to the 421 making it 446. Which is still a huge 54pt deficit. Any suggestions??

oh, and the Drake in SBG is pretty awesome. Get it stuck in where you need to shore up a hole in the line or break a hammer formation and get it "trapped." Even use your own troops to do so, and watch the reaction of your friend when the Drake starts to thrash around. I also find doing the draconian charge and getting in the face of a captain very thrilling...course I'm so hoping that I win the fight, they fail their fate roll and my Baby swallows em whole ...VERY AWESOME
have yet to use her in a WoTR game though.

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

Why not trade a goblin for a second troll, or two goblins for another captain and some bats?

1. durburz is 60pts
2. 1st list is good, just get rid of the troll and get some gobs (at least 10 archers, i know they suck, but are nessesary)
3. 2nd list is alright, although you could easily drop the capt and get some prowlers or blackshields

EDIT: for some reason, when i posted this i didnt see that last few posts, so most of what Ive said has become irrelevant by now....

So something like:::

Durburz (60)
Shaman (45)
Troll w/Chain (85)
Troll w/Chain (85)
Prowlers x8 (56)
Bows x10 (50)
Shields x12 (60)
Spears x11 (55)
500pts, 45models

I like the Bat Swarms, just don't have any. (Sidenote:: if you add 2 swarms to a fight, both on the same figure, does it reduce 1/2 for each swarm. So 1/2 for the 1st swarm, then reducing further 1/2 for the 2nd swarm? A solo dwarven warrior w/a F4 would be F2 for the 1st swarm, then a F1 with the addition of the 2nd swarm?!?!?!)

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

troll chains arent really that great, if you drop them you get 2 more goblins, but id say keep one so you can see how they work for yourself

I agree, I only suggested it because he was already at the 50 model limit.