Nazgul

Ringwraith with 2 Extra Might 5 Extra Will and 2 Extra Fate
Ringwraith with 2 Extra Might 5 Extra Will and 2 Extra Fate

Dwellers Below

Moria Goblin Captain with Shield

13 Moria Goblins with Shields
14 Moria Goblins with Spears
14 Moria Goblins with Bows
5 Wild Wargs

opinions guys, I'm not sure if should trade the wargs for a cave troll?

Since the wraiths are so close to max pts, they are kind of pointless to take IMO.

Leave the wargsd in your list

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Personally if you are going to go Wraith at 500pts either ally in one or drop the Dwellers and go full on Wraith.

However i would also keep the Wargs, maybe make one Wraith The Witch King, max him out then get rid of the other one and add a Cave Troll to the list. Again just my opinion on the list.

'FiireKnife'

Swap the wargs and the goblin captain for a wild warg chieftan

two nazgul is to much, just take one. And as it's so close to full, you might want to use a named wraith such as the Shadow Lord.
Taking one nazgul will also free some points for other goody's
this could be an option:

Moria:
-goblin captain

-13 goblins with shield
-13 goblins with spear
-13 goblins with bow

Dol Guldur:
-the spider queen

-5 wild wargs

The Nazgul:
-the shadow lord on horse

hope this is some help to you

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"make me lunch... worthy of Mordor"

WanderingDunedain, please don't use the Shadow Lord, try a differenty one instead like the Undying or the Dark Marshal

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

why not the SL? he's the best of all nine!
You mean couse he's so boring?

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"make me lunch... worthy of Mordor"

You've hit the nail on the r=head. He's so powerful hes cheesy and makes for boring game.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

i do like the spider queen idea

Go for a Knight of Umbar, seeing as the only way he loses Will in a fight is if his side actually loses, plus he can mimic enemy attacks and strenght so he could crush Heroes with their own abilities lol.

Actually i have to work out which Ringwraith is going in my list.

'FireKnife'

Thats as bad idea as the Shadow Lord if you want your opponant to like you.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

You know, I think fritskuhntm offered very sound advice. I see no problem with taking either the Shadow Lord or the Spider Queen or both really. The objective of the game is to win, if these models help you do that, then go ahead and take them.

What makes this game interesting and fun is when you introduce scenarios into the equation. Sure, in a straight up "run up and kill the other guy" fight, the Shadow Lord will prevent heavy archery causalities, but when the scoring objectives are located outside of his 12" diameter bubble, then some of your army is going to be exposed to bowfire. If you do stay bunched up, well then great. I'll just waltz over and take the other objectives and win that way.

The Spider Queen? Big deal. She's good for her points. But once she get's into close combat, you just shoot into that combat and she goes away very quickly. If you're playing with Good, then you have excess to heroes with F7 or other tricks (stormcaller and such) that can negate her as well.

I would love to play against a list like the one he posted. It would give me a very solid tactical challenge. I like challenges, it helps me become a better player and often times I learn a whole lot more out of losing than I do from winning.

If your gaming group doesn't like to be challenged, or actually have to think or play scenarios, then ya, sure, don't take the SL or the SQ. But then again, that gaming group won't let you grow outside of what is "Friendly" or "Themed" anyway and so they might deserve to have their army handed to them.

EDIT: I just read another post by you recently that said that the player should include a Shadow Lord because he's very good. Do you not mind when he is in the original list and when other members suggest him?

Since when is two wraiths a bad idea? Multi-wraithing is probably the most powerful tool available to an evil player especially when your using goblins who can rely heavily on facing transfixed opponents, i would howver drop a might on each one to give them more will...

i was kind of going for the max numbers swarm sort of thing to cover all bases of competitive play really, and I don't care too much about the opponent not liking me either

so could you point out any immediate flaws in the army?

No, the object of this is to enjoy a social game in a friendly enviroment, whether you win or not is irrelevant. It is the laughs you have that are the fun. Playing to win only is not going to earn you many friends and means less people will want to play with you.

'FireKnife'

Thats exactly what I menat when I said you'r eopponent will not like you.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

As this is on army help, I think we can safely presume this is for competitive play or he would/should have mentioned it. I myself don't think there's anything wrong with playing competitively but still enjoying the game. Sure, SL's completely over-powered but so is Saruman, both ends of the spectrum get the over-powered units and if you play competitively, you will use them. In fact, some of the best games I have played have been tournament-competitive. Some people just naturally enjoy competitiveness and myself for one, find it difficult to enjoy a half-hearted effort game (though I still can really enjoy thematic scenarios).

I don't want to sound like I'm having a massive go at anyone, I just wanted to say that I don't think there's anything wrong with playing competitively (and I certainly don't think the game is only about winning, competitive as I am) but some people genuinely enjoy playing competitively.

As for the army, I agree with one wraith. Two is too much at the this level. Maybe swap one out for the SQ as suggested and then you can swap the captain out for durburz (maybe with dropping a few gobbos) as you'll have the SQ to ally in the wargs.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

The point of the game is to have fun, the objective is to win. You don't play a game to lose, you play to win. That being said, the reason you play a game is to have fun. There's no reason why you can't have fun while playing seriously competitive armies.

And as spuds4ever said, I find it very difficult to play a list I know can be better or a game where I only give it half of my effort.

As for what I would change, I think the list purposed by fritskuhntm is a pretty solid list.



One of the reasons why you don't want two wraiths is because you'll only really need one to deal with heroes (at this points level). If you're clever, your goblins should be able to handle the warriors, and the SQ can take care of any flank that is giving you problems/ get rid of that transfixed hero rather quickly.

Good Luck

Not entirely true, you can play to participate, even if you know you have no chance of winning you can still enter and enjoy yourself. You don't always play to win.



So your first point is thus irrelevant, as you say 'you don't play a game to lose, you play to win'.



No of course not, but that is not my point, you can play to win but then others won't play against you as they are not having fun, thus meaning you will end up with no-one to game with if you only played match based list and focus on nothing but the winning. I found that in my local club i was more likely to get a game going than a friend of mine, simply as i played my lists for fun and had a great time losing while he wrote competitive lists and played to win only, thus ruining the other persons fun.

Hate to bring all this up but what you and others have put doesn't make sense. As much as yes you can make list that are competitive and YOU can enjoy playing them people won't enjoy playing against you and you will have defeated the object of a social hobby, which is what all things GW really are.

'FireKnife'

I'm sorry but I'd have to disargee, it's not the strength of an army that decides if you have a fun game; it's the people playing.
You can make a fun game just by being a good sport and being kind to your opponent

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"make me lunch... worthy of Mordor"