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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:28 am 
Elven Warrior
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It is a bit of a digression from the realm of packaging etc but:
1. Plenty of minis companies operate from profit but with a very different price-structure. You can be for-profit with lower prices.
2. On the other hand, sales staff etc being too focused on turnover vs getting the price they could get is an acknowledged issue and one many corporates are focused on addressing. It is seen as giving up margin that they could have had. I would imagine that in GW you may not be very popular in internal discussions if you want to put turnover before the margins senior management want. It may well be seen as problematic and a sign of unwillingness to do all you can do in terms of sales. I can't know that for sure but it is sometimes the way it goes.
3. I'd say those P + D graphs they do in highschool economics are a bit misleading in terms of the angles of the lines.

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Last edited by Xelee on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:15 am 
Kinsman
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Chris wrote:
RyuAzai wrote:
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Thank goodness for Ebay! I won 60 plastic Mordor Orcs last night for 55.00 US! Great deal now with the new price increases.


Ah! I was competing with you! I gave up on the orcs early though. I won the Armored Glorfindel, and the Cave troll ;)


No lol, if im right u won armored glorfindel from me :(

[edit] at least last time i check i had the highest bid :roll:


Sorry, sorry! I was stalking that Armored glorfindel and I did wait until the last I think... 30 seconds to bid as high as I was willing to go. I was trying to get the 50 goblins but I wasn't able to, so I was not going to lose the glorfindel. I just find it amusing, I stalk this forum more then I post, but we are all kinda buying from the same guy from Kildare and all competing with each other ;).

A little more on topic I just kind of find it a lose, lose for us when GW does this. I don't believe if they lose sales or their business is hurt from this move, that they will wake up and be like "Huh, let's lower prices back" they will just not produce new minis or really put effort into LOTRs. At least what I think. As for everything else I will only ever do ebay from now on. Glad I've been collecting for a long time now.

The problem for me though is I am trying to get -everything- to make bout 1,000 point armies of almost every army. Maybe in another decade I'll accomplish my goal ;).
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:35 am 
Wayfarer
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RyuAzai wrote:
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Thank goodness for Ebay! I won 60 plastic Mordor Orcs last night for 55.00 US! Great deal now with the new price increases.


Ah! I was competing with you! I gave up on the orcs early though. I won the Armored Glorfindel, and the Cave troll ;)


Sorry, but you you will not get anymore compeition from me. I have almost 90 mordor orcs now and the good thing is I payed about 75 dollars for all of them.

I also got a metal treebeard, Wraith on Fell beast and Box of Rohan Warriors for $40 (US) last week. Ebay is good if you are patient and set limits for yourself.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:54 am 
Loremaster
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Sticky Fingersss wrote:

GW doesn't seem to understand economics. If you decrease price, sales tend to increase. If you increase price, sales tend to decrease. At a certain point, you reach an equilibrium, where price meets sales to give the highest possible profit. So, if something isn't selling well, decrease the price to the point where you can get rid of it without losing any money. GW is doing the opposite. I understand that LotR isn't their most popular brand, but the more you increase the price of them, the less you will sell, decreasing profits. If they understood economics, they would sell them MUCH cheaper than this. I don't know the production costs of producing a box of minis, but it can't be any higher than $15-$20, otherwise they wouldn't have sold them (early) last year for only $27. There can't possibly be such a drastic change in costs to call for a price hike up to almost $45.



That is an incredibly simplified economic point of view. GW definetly understands economics more than you do. They are still a huge business and have survived for ages. Any price rise is going to be unpopular bu. That's the way all large companies think.



Of course it's a simplified view, but it's still true. If they understood economics more than me, then they wouldn't increase the prices to ludicrous levels. I understand that taxes are higher in the UK than in the US, but that should mean it's cheaper here snce they make them here in the US too.


There are so many other factors that are included. What you have said is what is located in High School text books. GW are a full running buisiness and their goal is to make money. That is every buisniness's goal. Saying that you understand economics much more than GW is a really large step to take, and unless you have previous run a high corp business or have majored it in uni then I would rather take GW's advice if I were starting a business than yours.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:39 am 
Loremaster
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Sticky Fingersss wrote:
GW are a full running buisiness and their goal is to make money. That is every buisniness's goal.


Yes, well. Its a shame they have to [word deleted] off a large section of their regular customers at the same time. It would be really interesting to see some statistics on how good GW is at retaining customers over several years i.e. customer loyalty, as opposed to luring in new people who buy a few things, play a game for a short while then quit due to the prohibitive costs etc (several of my friends).

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:15 pm 
Elven Elder
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CaptainOfTheWhiteTower wrote:
Draugluin wrote:
GW doesn't seem to understand economics. If you decrease price, sales tend to increase. If you increase price, sales tend to decrease. At a certain point, you reach an equilibrium, where price meets sales to give the highest possible profit. So, if something isn't selling well, decrease the price to the point where you can get rid of it without losing any money. GW is doing the opposite. I understand that LotR isn't their most popular brand, but the more you increase the price of them, the less you will sell, decreasing profits. If they understood economics, they would sell them MUCH cheaper than this. I don't know the production costs of producing a box of minis, but it can't be any higher than $15-$20, otherwise they wouldn't have sold them (early) last year for only $27. There can't possibly be such a drastic change in costs to call for a price hike up to almost $45.


As Necromancer said demand is pretty inelastic as far as GW is concerned. Demand is not very sensitive to price in other words. They understand economics all too well unfortunately, thats why we're in this situation.

Demand is ALWAYS sensitive to price, it's just that the vast majority of GW buyers are Warhammer and 40K fans who have lost their minds playing that game, so now they don't care about the price, they just want the minis, so the demand isn't AS sensitive to price, but it is affected by it.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Don't forget the influence of unit price; a box for the £24 they want is too much for most 12-year-olds, but a box now for £1, and another box in three weeks time for the same price, may be more achievable. It's the difference between a sale and a no-sale.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Angularity wrote:
Don't forget the influence of unit price; a box for the £24 they want is too much for most 12-year-olds, but a box now for £1, and another box in three weeks time for the same price, may be more achievable. It's the difference between a sale and a no-sale.


£1 boxes? heh, if only... :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:15 pm 
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King Ondoher wrote:
Angularity wrote:
Don't forget the influence of unit price; a box for the £24 they want is too much for most 12-year-olds, but a box now for £1, and another box in three weeks time for the same price, may be more achievable. It's the difference between a sale and a no-sale.


£1 boxes? heh, if only... :rofl:


Damn this cheap keyboard... :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:23 pm 
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My local independent hobby store still had the 24 model box sets going at £17......I wasn't sure weather to tell him or not! I'll just wait till i get paid, and out stock all his models :p

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Draugluin wrote:
Demand is ALWAYS sensitive to price, it's just that the vast majority of GW buyers are Warhammer and 40K fans who have lost their minds playing that game, so now they don't care about the price, they just want the minis, so the demand isn't AS sensitive to price, but it is affected by it.


Lol, I think we can all agree that those 40K players are indeed crazy :P

The point about elasticity (sensitivity of demand to prices) isn't that it's entirely inelastic (though that can happen to stuff like fuel) but rather with GW holding a monopoly on the LOTR license the resulting elasticity of demand isn't as high as it should or would be if we had perfect substitutes available to us.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Well we can at least use Ad Hoc substitutes. I'm going to come up with a Rohan infantry force at some point using my Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory Anglo-Saxons. In fact, I think they're better than GW's Rohan models.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24 pm 
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King Ondoher wrote:
Well we can at least use Ad Hoc substitutes. I'm going to come up with a Rohan infantry force at some point using my Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory Anglo-Saxons. In fact, I think they're better than GW's Rohan models.


Yeah I kind of envy people like you. I'm totally attached to the film representations, and as such will only fill my armies with GW models.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Necromancer7 wrote:
King Ondoher wrote:
Well we can at least use Ad Hoc substitutes. I'm going to come up with a Rohan infantry force at some point using my Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory Anglo-Saxons. In fact, I think they're better than GW's Rohan models.


Yeah I kind of envy people like you. I'm totally attached to the film representations, and as such will only fill my armies with GW models.


I am of a similar view to you mr necromancer, if gw make an official lotr model of something or a cheaper alternative eg Rohan Riders for Ghostly Roders etc, then to LOTR models I must go.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:44 am 
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So lets get this all straight, shall we?

* GW have not done ANYTHING for LotR/WotR in over a year. Nada. Zilch. Zip.
* Oops, I forgot that they made some metal models into their new and unimproved finecast line. So, they have done less than nothing. They have actually gone backwards by producing less durable models for more money.
* They take some quite dated models, halve them in packages and sell them essentially for a roughly 20% markup.

They are doing all of these wonderful things for a line of models that isn't exactly a highly sought after seller, making it more difficult to get people to play in their supposed "third core system".

It is things like this that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that they do not want to retain customer loyalty. In fact, they actively drive people away. Why?

Well, there would be less people in shops kvetching about how when LotR first came out, a box of 24 last alliance warriors cost $12.50 to what we have now which has quadrupled in cost for those very same 24 models.

GW want you gone and this is really an ingenious way to do it while filling the coffers under the guise of offering a "Hobby". You know, those things that people often stick with when they find something they like. That "Hobby"?

They want mentally challenged children with similarly mentally challenged parents who have an inordinate amount of income to throw GW's way. They do not want loyalty or customer retention. This is not news to most of you of course, but to those who wear rose colored glasses, if this doesnt wake you up then have fun spending the dough playing games not many other people will because of the steep price of admission.

WotR is surely dead if they think this sort of pricing will be stood for by the miniature wargaming crowd. It was already borderline out of reach for many people but now? Now it is a comical thing.

You would think that one so cynical as I with GW would not be surprised by these events. But somehow GW manage to surprise even the cynics who think they could go no lower. I rant because I care. I love the LotR/WotR line. It was hard enough to get the rare opponents that I did. And now the only people I will get to play are those who will be using my armies because they sure as heck wont be buying their own for WotR at these prices for the quality of minis that they are getting.

A real shame.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:17 am 
Elven Warrior
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And if I am not mistaken WotR/LotR articles in WD seem to be less and less.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:19 am 
Elven Warrior
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Hellfury, Im note sure of the meaning of your senteces, maybe my english is not the best.
So, tell me, what is the commercial interests in destroying the WOTR line? Im not really get it.

By the way Im really lucky, cause me and my several friends already have a huge collection of the figures, and we play a lot of WOTR. Maybe the WOTR will die in the hobbi world, but not at us. :)
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Constantine wrote:
And if I am not mistaken WotR/LotR articles in WD seem to be less and less.


I don't think you can get any less than zero. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Bastion.HUN wrote:
Hellfury, Im note sure of the meaning of your senteces, maybe my english is not the best.
So, tell me, what is the commercial interests in destroying the WOTR line? Im not really get it.

By the way Im really lucky, cause me and my several friends already have a huge collection of the figures, and we play a lot of WOTR. Maybe the WOTR will die in the hobbi world, but not at us. :)

He means that they're tired of people complaining about LotR, so now they're going to destroy the line once and for all. Which is dumb considering they just re-upped their license.

In anycase, no more plastics for me. Maybe some more metals, but that's it.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:05 pm 
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They're not going to kill off the LOTR range, they've just got to keep some level of interest alive until the Hobbit films come out.

Imagine yourself in the role of Product Manager for the LOTR range; you have NO chance of creating new ranges of figures, because the cost of manufacture is not going to be offset by the returns. What are they going to produce? Some non-descript spearmen from Southern Gondor (but what do you think the Men of Dale will be like)? A new Dwarf character perhaps (The Hobbit's going to be full of them)? Some exciting new Elves (Hobbit again)? Orcs, perchance (Hobbit once again)? Evil Men from the South or the East (haven't they kicked the living daylights out of that already, and how many people would actually buy them)? Second Age characters (no film to support it, no licence from Tolkien, no chance of a supporting storybook like they do with Warhammer. How many sales could they support in their key target age group of teenage boys who've ploughed their way through The Silmarillion)? They could try a range of figures based on the History of Middle Earth books (I'd love a mini of Trotter the Hobbit), but it's a bit of a niche market and they don't do niche 'cos there's no money in it and they've got shareholders to support.

No figures then, but what about books? You're not allowed to write new stories around the characters you've got, so forget that one. Any other ideas?

All they can do is repackage what they've already got and hope. They can't even afford to change the artwork on the boxes. They just need to keep the ranges in the shops until THe Hobbit comes out, and go on the back of the films like they did last time. Ten years after the release of the last film, you'll really see the meaning of a dead product range. But then that's 14 years off...

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