wrong - they ignore the scrub/roots/underbrush/etc which make up the woodland area, while trees themselves are actual physical objects which block LoS and movement. Check the quote given by both LK and myself above concerning what counts as what in an area of woodland terrain.

I can't help but feel Rozinante isn't even bothering to read what we write :S
You can have trees without woodland terrain, in a shire scenario for example there would be plenty of trees blocking movements and LOS but no undergrowth since hobbits are such neat freaks.
You can have woodland terrain without trees, patches of bushes for example.

The Fleetfoot Special rule allows them to treat woodland terrain as clear terrain, so when they go into a forest that was ordinarily a patch of difficult terrain with various trees spread around they count as going into a neat open field of nice easy to walk on terrain with various trees spread around.

Trees are not difficult terrain, they are not what makes you move 1/2 or 1/4 slower. They are physical objects that block movement and LOS.

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I think we are talking about SBG, at least that is what I'm talking about lol

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NO. Trees are impassable terrain, the AREA around the trees are difficult terrain. Woodland Creature ignores woodland DIFFICULT terrain.

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Only AotD can walk though trees. Elves must go around them just like everybody else.

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I hesitant to pick fine points with the Masters...but IMHO, this discussion has gotten bogged down with "Can an elf pass through a tree trunk." No, he can't. I agree.

But a Woodland Creatures 'never consider areas of woods to be difficult terrian." They move without penality through "any wooded area classed as difficult terrian"....unless it has trees in it?

Does that sound odd to anyone else? Don't all wooded areas have trees in it?

Seriously..."a woodland terrian with out woods" would not be called a woodland terrian...would it? Elves can move through a wooded area as if in the open...but not between trees unless the base fits? How can the rule apply to 'a woodland area' but not the trees in it? This separation between trees and woodland areas seems artifical.

Woodland terrian has trees that block movement.
Clear terrian has no trees that block movement.
If a Knight 'treats Woodland Terrian as Clear Terrian" then he treats woodland terrian as having no trees that block movement.

Magic? What we humans call it, anyway. I know: movement is normally determined by base width. Even so, somehow Woodland Creatures can move between trees as if no trees were in the way, as if they did not have a five foot diameter movement base around their ankles, 'just as if he were in the open".

So much simplier than measuring between tree trunks...maybe the rule was created to save us from that. What do I know?

NO! wooded terrain is classified as terrain with trees. The part of the terrain that makes it difficult is the "brush" that surrounds the trees themselves. The trees themselves are immovable objects that must be circumnavigated in order to pass them. It's like a mountain. The rocky terrain is classified as difficult, but that doesn't mean that dwarf rangers can just wlk through a rock that's the size of a tree.

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I think either Rozinante is not reading the posts properly or is trolling like a pro!

An elf treats woodland terrain as clear terrain as you say, BUT it has to move around the trees. Think back to the LOTR films, Legolas cannot pass through the Mountain when the Fellowship are trying to sneak past Saruman, but he is walking on the snow. In gaming terms he is not affected by the difficult terrain (ie snow) but is affected by the solid mountain (or in our case the trees).

Basically just move them 6" around the wooded area, but not through the individual trees (models move around them)

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this


Like I've stated 2 times before, you can have trees in clear terrain (think garden/shire/etc) and they still block movement.
Start reading what the rest of the folks write and stop trolling.

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I often stick a palm tree in the open when playing in desert, this does not make it a wood.
But if you have a base that has trees on then it is sensible to AGREE with your opponent that this is woodland,
JUST LIKE
when you play with buildings on bases you should agree if this too is open terrain or not and which doors are defendable.

Since my group doesn't have any woods with bases, we just stick a bunch of trees in a group about 2in apart from each other, and say that if you're within an inch of a tree, you're considered to be in wooded terrain.

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Trees do not block movement. They do not have a control zone. They must be circumnavigated. So If you have enough moment you can step pass them.The example on page 19 in no way changes this.If a object blocks LOS it blocks direct fire period. If you can see part of the target then a in the way test is necessary. You can climb a tree or step around it.The tree will not stop you.There is no trees block or halt movement rule period.

The example of the row of orcs separated by a tree in the center. The elves can pass so long as they stay out of the orcs control zone and have enough movement to pass by the tree trunk.Your father is still correct.

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Yes trees do block movement (that's why they need to be circumnavigated), no they do not have a control zone. I'm not sure who you are arguing with.

Here's the original post:



He had a line of orcs with the tree in the middle. The tree was blocking the way, not with any control zone, it was literally blocking the way as in it was standing there.
His dad said that models could walk through a tree, not around them. The original poster knows that you can pass right next to tree, that was never the question, he argued with his dad because his dad was walking through trees.

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Although it's always best to talk about terrain details in advance, if something like a tree blocks LOS then it is perfectly reasonable that it is in fact a physical object that blocks movement as well.

The fact that elves are Woodland Creatures allows them to move the woodland terrain...not thru trees. At our LGS table we have several terrain features ranging from maybe 6" to 16" in size with trees on them and dark flock. We call all these "woodland terrain". Each has between 3 and 8 tree models. Sometimes we will put down shapes of green felt cloth to represent the terrain feature, and again place some physical trees around it. The whole feature is woodland terrain but the individual trees and their density on the feature represent the actual impact to LOS and movement in the game. A model that can avoid the impact of moving thru woodland terrain can ignore those movement restrictions while in the feature but still faces the LOS and in-the-way-of-movement of the physical trees. This way of handling woodland terrain vs. physical tree models is also what I have seen played at GW tournaments and smaller events.

This is not in the rule book specifically. But it's what we have always discussed and cover again before almost every game so there is no question. In fact, we take maybe 1 minute, max, at the start of every game to go thru each terrain on the board (hill, water, woods, house, etc) to make sure we each agree on what it means in the game. Communication in advance goes a LONG way in games and one or two minutes before a game can save several times that during the game flipping thru books and arguing points...not to mention the hard feelings that can come.

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I am clearly correcting you. There is no argument.Trees are not enemy models.Trees do not have a control zone.Trees do not block movement unless you do not have enough movement to pass. Trees do not block movement they effect movement.


Your father can do that so long as he is out side the control zone of the orcs and has enough movement.


Implications are not rules.

I am sure you are paraphrasing your father but I will address the quote.The size and position of the trees is important for WYSIWYG but in your example will not prevent the troops from passing through.
Your father is right

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1. TREES BLOCK MOVEMENT THE SAME WAY A DOOR OR A WALL DO. Doors don't have control zones, but you still can't move through them if they are closed.
2. He can't because there is a TREE in the way.
3. If wysiwyg applies for shooting, it would stand to reason that they also apply for movement.

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@oldmanwillow
So, in short, you're saying that figures can walk straight through solid trees

That just defies common sense, and the whole point of tabletop wargaming is to have as realistic as possible an experiance.(albiet it is fantasy, and some things are simplified for speed)
Elves never walked through trees, in the movies or in the books.

*Edit* as drauglin (sp?) said, you can't walk through a wall, so why can you walk through a tree?

Yes.. correcting...
Tried reading what I write? Not sure if you are aware but "block" is not an in game defined term. When describing the control zone they use the word "block" once: "In effect, this allows models to block the movement of enemies."
They use block in that sentence as in "block" that word that is part of the english language.
It's not even used in the actual rule, just in a sentence that describes what it ends up doing.
On the example with the pictures in page 15 they use "prevents movement" instead of blocks movement, just english words.
When on page 19 they say trees block movement they once again mean the english word, they do not mean a specific game term. I repeat there is no game term entitled "block".
If you wanna define a different way trees could affect movement you could, by the barrier rules, treat them as a barrier that is very high allowing for climbing. This would make the game quite annoying though.
There is no way you could treat the trees as if they weren't there under the SBG rules.
If I wasn't clear enough, block is simply an english word defined in the closest dictionary. It is never defined as "what models do when they have control zones" like you want to imply.


And the bases needed to fit between the orcs and the tree


By stating that the position of the trees does not matter he is stating that every piece of wooded area is exactly the same which leads to the possibility of placing models in the area where the tree is. Implying isn't the best word since there is no implication, it's a direct and unavoidable consequence of that reasoning.

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So he was almost right, in that trees don't "block" movement, they just "effect" movement, by preventing it altogether.

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No. You are putting words in my mouth. You are deliberately misrepresenting my point to invoke ridicule. That is a childishly silly ploy.
Trees do not have locks. Trees are not walls.Trees are not doors.Trees do not block movement.Trees impose a penalty on movement.

It does and I provided photos of examples.


You are right I missed that. Thank you, I should have articulated it differently.Thank you, we agree.

Trees are terrain they effect movement. If you have enough movement you may pass through the terrain model.Trees still don't have a control zone so they can not stop or block or control movement like a enemy model.Trees do not prevent movement.
So the troops can pass through the terrain model as long as they don't enter the control zone of the orcs.Different words same result.

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