1. Your "photos of examples" have NOTHING to do with what we're discussing.
2. As I've already said, doors don't have control zones, but you can't move through them. A model in combat doesn't have a control zone, but you can't move through them. Your own models aren't effected by your other models' control zones. So why should you be able to move through trees?

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
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If I were to re write the rules I would write something like this.
"When entering woodland terrain one may pass through the terrain avoiding obvious obstacles such as trees but with a penalty of half movement for models on foot, and quarter movement for mounted models. Flying models may not enter woods but may land on top of woodland terrain.
For purposes of ease you need to agree exactly where this woodland terrain extends, usually this would be a base that has the trees on or the space enclosed by a group of trees.
Models with woodland creature may pass through the area terrain without penalty but must still avoid obstacles such as trees"

You cannot pass THROUGH a tree in SBG. FACT.
You tell me where in the rules it says you may pass through solid terrain objects or be so bold as to allow me to ignore the gates of Mordor and the walls of Minis Tirith.
Area terrain is different to terrain models. Again semantics are being argued when the rules simply say don't walk through solid objects.

double post but if you read the terrain section it does say to clarify with your opponent what is what... so teh fault is on both sides and the ruling is meaningless but in general you cant pass through solid objects.
A tree is more than twice a model's height so cannot be crossed.

It means whether or not a group of trees count as wooded terrain, it doesn't mean to decide whether or not the trees count as being there. If that's what it meant, then just remove the trees from play.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

and yet they say you can treat a piece of card as "woodland" so in some ways it does...
Though I still think "A tree is more than twice a model's height so cannot be crossed."

I like the way you presented your rules.
As for walking through solid objects.I have not once said you could.The solid object argument is being used in a rather desperate argument for how the rules should work. A tree is part of a terrain section. The terrain section counts as difficult terrain. 1/2 move. It takes 1/2 a move to pass by the tree.That does not mean you can walk through solid objects.WYSIWYG means that a large tree model like the example would have to be climbed over or take several turns to cross. A tree with a 1/8 inch trunk is hardly a bump.
you cannot pass THROUGH a tree in SBG. FACT.
The solid object argument is silly.
You pass by the tree at half rate.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

An 1/8 of an inch would actually be a tree that's about a foot wide, hardly a bump. In WotR, the trees are counted as just being part of the terrain feature. In SBG, trees are counted as being there, just like a door or other solid object. If we were talking about WotR, you would be right, but we're not.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

and then:


So... hey, I'm not saying figures can walk straight through solid trees I'm just saying the trees can't prevent them from moving through that space.


Ok now I'm sure you didn't read what I wrote carefully. If you had you would have noticed that I wrote affect instead of the incorrect effect.

Trees are not difficult terrain, as someone stated earlier he sticks palm trees in the desert often cause they look good and that doesn't mean there's dificult terrain there.
Or you can have a garden, neat easy to walk on terrain with scattered trees.
You really don't need to have a wood or a forest to have a tree

I highly doubt you'll ever understand since you seem determined to ignore everyone else and keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
Dinadan pretty much closed this thread with the very first reply. He pointed us at a sentence in the rulebook that stated directly that trees block movement. A sentence you choose to disregard because you feel like it.
It's in the same bloody font as every other example of the rules throughout the book. Yes the ones under the pretty pictures that help us understand the rules.

Here's more funny stuff:
Types of difficult terrain are defined as areas always, never as single objects.
In their examples they list Areas of wood or forests, not trees. They then explain in the example on page 19 that the difficult terrain is the undergrowth and not the trees.
Smaller terrain features fall under the barrier rules.
Acording to the barrier rules any object that is taller than twice the height of the model can't be jumped over and must be climbed. (it would need to be less than half the model's height to be free to move over, hardly tree material)
The example on page 19 thankfully renders the climbing void for trees (it would be pretty tricky to have them climbing trees). You can still make a case for climbing them/jumping over them if you are really tall in friendly games. In tournaments it isn't allowed.

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A tree is not a obstacle like a wall unless it has fallen. Most model tree trunks are rater small.I posted photos of larger models that would take a few turns to climb or circumvent at half rate.

Take the tree off the base and use the card example. Half rate and rather boring but you can cross the card at half rate.Now put he tree model back. The tree model looks better but does not change the movement rules.


Thank you. you looked it up and proved my point.
I do read what you post and you are still wrong.
Up to this point I have ignored your condescending remarks.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Not meaning to sound rude, but reread the rulebook quote given by both me and LonelyKnight -


This specifically states that trees block movement - i.e. you cannot move through a tree and it is the undergrowth that causes you to move at half speed.

Here is a picture of what I am imagining the scenario to be. For simplicity lets say these are all your figures. You have a shield wall, each circle is a figures base. You have a 25mm gap in the shield wall with a tree in the middle. (Btw, this whole thing is on a base that counts as woodland terrain, and there are other trees, etc that are out of the picture, for simplicity.) Can you move a figure through the gap in the shield wall? I say no, the tree is in the way. But you would say yes, you can move through?




As to this....I was trying to understand what you were saying in it's most simple form, not trying to incite anything......

YES. IT. DOES. Unless you ONLY put it there to look good, in which case it would also NOT block arrows or effect LOS.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

After reading Oldman Willow's last post...
Seriously?
Do you know any rules at all?
Obstacles are a subsection of barriers for the times when the the barrier is "at least half as high or half as wide as the height of the model, but not more than twice as high or wide"
It's not even a constant since it depends on the height of the model. A fallen tree would be an obstacle to a man but not to a troll. However it would be a barrier for both.
Barrier is an in game term as explained on page 18. The fallen tree would be a very low and narrow barrier for the troll so he could just walk over it. It would fit the obstacle description for the man so the obstacle rules would be required.

Since you choose to disregard the example box in page 19 I was pointing out that even without that the tree would still be a barrier that required climbing/jumping.
There is no good reason for dismissing that box by the way.
You keep dismissing it merely because it doesn't fit with what you want to be right, even though it's an example written by the guys who wrote the rules explaining how wood/forests work.

You must feel really smart ignoring all the good points being raised and repeating the same thing to exaustion

Here's one of those good points:

You kept stating over and over again that trees can't block movement because they don't have control zones (even though on page 19 it clearly says that they block movement).
As Draugluin pointed out having a control zone isn't a requirement for blocking movement since you can't move through your own models.

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Oh my word,
If you honestly think trees dont block movement then go play 40k! This is a skirmish game where small things matter and the rule book says on page 19 that trees block both LOS and movement. BLOCK! and the BASE is the difficult terrain which elves ignore.
The elves ignore wood area not the wood itself that would be madeness "watch me float over this tree"

In your example you can not pass by the tree because of the control zone of the orc not because you can not pass the tree at half rate. That is a very small tree. My individual tree bases are two inches wide. That would leave enough room to pass between the control zones.
That is why WYSIWYG is so in important. You could l pass through the tree because it is difficult terrain after the two controlling figures are in combat.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

No it doesn't prove your point. It proves that forests as difficult terrain is all about the area, not the trees themselves. The trees are separate objects that block movement and can appear outside woods/forests as stated multiple times.
This might seem complicated to you but you need to explain why you believe it proves your point.

I am not posting condescending remarks. I am trying to remain calm when faced with a smug person who seems to have no intention of discussing rules and ignores all points that threaten his view.

You haven't provided any reason for ignoring the example explaining how woods/forests work.

I hope any new players reading this have realised by now what you can't seem to understand.

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But, as I've said already, an 1/8th in tree terrain piece to us is a foot wide tree to the models.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Okay, modification to that pic then - the two bases closest to the tree are orcs, the two either side are elves who have charged the orcs and therefore the orcs no longer have control zones. A third elf wishes to pass.
The question is 'Can he do so by going through the gap between the two orcs where the tree is?'
The answer 'No because trees block movement.'

S
Wow! now you are back to blocking movement!I thought that we had agreed that blocking was not a game term.

You need to try harder.
I am trying to present a point of view. You have not made a good argument. Now you are calling names. Sad.
Very Sad indeed.


Sorry, Blocking is not a game term as some one already pointed out.
I am afraid this has degenerated to the point it is not worth the trouble.
Have a good evening

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

No, block is not a game term, it is an english word, the language you are suposed to speak fluently.
He's saying that trees block/impede/prevent/obstruct movement by using english words and not specific game terms.
A game term is a word that is defined in the rulebook in a very specific fashion rendering any other normal meanings in the full english language void for discussions around that game. Like Barriers and Obstacles in LOTR SBG. In the english language they are synonims in many sentences, in the context of this game they are entities defined to mean specifically that. All the words that are not defined as game terms mean what they originally meant in english.

You don't make arguments at all. What a surprise, you didn't answer the points being raised yet again!
Why do you ignore the box on page 19 that answers the question?

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